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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| 617a Help needed
My project truck is snookered at the front end. I took a 617a block that i found in a breakers yard in SA - I never got the pulleys or the injector pump with that. I have overhauled everything and assembled the motor up to the front end. Then the trouble started! None of my pulley grooves line up with the alternator, PS pump, water pump etc.
1. The front pulley on the 617a sticks out further than the 617. The EPC shows the same part no. for the damper and pulley for both motors. What have I done wrong?
2. If I calibrate accordingly and ignore the altitude compensator what can happen with my injector pump not being from the 617a. Alternatively has anyone got the correct pump at a reasonable price?
3. Where is the right place to fit the aircon compressor to this motor - the original one is a big black thing that clashes with the chassis below the PS pump.
Thanxanrgds |
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: 617a Help needed
1. The front pully on a GD has a single belt to run the Alt/water pump. On most of the turbo motors there are two narrower belts doing that job. The Power Steering pump belt and A/C should be in the same location. It should be possible to get the correct double belt pulleys for the water pump and Alternator. The water pump on the turbo D is a reasonable price to replace. The GD pump is exponentially more expensive. The double belt set-up is better in my opinion because you can loose one and continue to run. Lose a belt on a GD and the trip is over and the truck sits where it is until a new one is installed. I run Conti belts and they are fantastic.
2. Make sure that your pump is providing the correct fuel delivery for the turbo motor. I think bad things can happen if the fuel is not correct; melted pistons, stuff like that.
3. Do a search on the BW forum about A/C mounts. Stevesmith has the trick bracket setup. It is above and to the left viewed from the front. This may not work for a RHD. Don't know but search around for ideas. Try to connect with Amzimmy, he could help you solve the problem I suspect.
-Dai |
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| RE: 617a Help needed
Bottom line on the pump is that if you don't use the right pump you'll be under-fuelling the motor in some situations (getting less power than you should) and over-fuelling it in others (risk high exhaust temps and engine damage) with only a small band that's correct. In the interest of not melting the motor or the turbo, most folks would rather under fuel than over fuel, so in the end, you've wasted that turbo because you're not giving it any extra fuel to heat that extra air. Believe me, if the aneroid stuff wasn't necessary, Bosch would have left it out and built a cheaper pump. It really is best to just get the right pump for the motor. Pumps are specific to different engine serial number ranges as other changes were made to the engine, so figure out which pump you need before you go looking. Sounds like you have good advice from Dai on the rest of the stuff. I can't comment on how to swap the front end stuff 'cause I got a complete 617a and just deleted the air con. -Dave G. PS - if you look at this thread, http://69.9.37.142/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=6579&mid=67001#M67001 you may pick up some reference to how people adjust their non-turbo injection pumps, and set up the turbo when they add turbo to a non-turbo motor. Your situation isn't much different. It can be done, but in the end, you're better off with the right pump.
Edited by hipine 3/16/2007 9:55 AM
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 617a Help needed
Ah Dai - some light thanks
If there are two water pumps then the fog lifts a bit.
1. Is the alternator mount bracket and position, the same between turbo motor and non turbo?
2. Is the turbo motor water pump pulley further from the block than a non turbo? ie is it longer.
Dave you obviously live where that white stuff falls out of the sky and you don't need an A/C and thanks guys for sending me to Amzimmy. He hates turbos and likes it hot so also has no A/C in his truck. The temp where I am has been hovering around 40C for a couple of weeks - Amzimmy is up there in the cool highlands!.
BTW it looks like I might have too much stuff missing off the front of this engine - wouldn't a cam belt arrangement be possible?
thanxanrgds
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dai
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Oregon USA
Vehicle(s): 300GD 300TD BMW R100RS Landini 80F
Posts: 2110
| Re: 617a Help needed
1. The alternator mount bracket is the same and in the same position in all of the motors I believe, even the 240D motor.
2. The turbo motor water pump has two pulleys side by side. The inside of the pulley is 2.5" away from the head and so is the non turbo single pulley. The double pulley on the turbo and alternator uses narrower belts 10X1035 (times 2). The stock GD 617 uses a single 13X1030. So the second belt on the turbo motor is further away from the head. The main pulley on the crankshaft of a turbo 617.95 will have (from the block counting toward the radiator) two narrow grooves for 10 mm belts and then 2 - 13mm belt grooves, one for the PS and one for the A/C. This is how the US spec turbo motors that I am familiar with are set up.
Don't really understand the last comment. The cam is driven by a major duplex chain tied into the fuel injection pump timing device/governor. They very very rarely break.
-Dai |
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petermerle
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cape Town ( deep south )
Vehicle(s): W460 *1, W123 *2, W124
Posts: 1315
| RE: 617a Help needed
Vibration damper pulley according to the EPC
617.912 A6170300103 up to engine no 151814 manual 184310 for auto ( +- model year 1982 )
from this engine # damper changes to A6170300803 ( 3.2 kg )
for G engine
617.931 damper is the same as the sedan version also both later and early models
For 617.952 damper is different with part no A6170300703 ( 1.7 kg )
For the pulley
617.912 and 617.931 early A6170351112 and later version A6170351712 ( 1.3 Kg)
617.952 A6170350612 ( 1.7 Kg )
Water pump A1102001720 for the 617.912/931/952 engine can be used. ( relatively cheap and obtainable aftermarcket )
Water pump housing early G 's Up to engine 11424 ( manual ) used same housing as sedan and 952 engines.
Don't relay on the average Parts Salemans to fathom out the intricacies of the EPC - either get EPC yourself or find a saleman who is prepared to go through the process methodically. BTW there are also early and late brackets for alternator
Peter |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 617a Help needed
"The inside of the pulley is 2.5" away from the head and so is the non turbo single pulley"
Thanks Dai this is good - painful but good. As you can see on the attached photos the difference in crank length is evident between the two motors which means there is something different down at the bottom as far as the damper, pulleys and damper mount are concerned. What parts I still need is still murky but I'll PM you Peter if you dont mind with engine no's - if you would be so kind. I only have the 460 EPC - no engines.
Thanxanrgds
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hipine
Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
| Re: 617a Help needed
You had the chassis galvy'd??? Very nice! -Dave G. |
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petermerle
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cape Town ( deep south )
Vehicle(s): W460 *1, W123 *2, W124
Posts: 1315
| Re: 617a Help needed
Here in SA the chassis don't seem to have a rust problem - no salt is used on roads here . I don't know of anyone who has had their G chassis galvanised - although it quite popular amongst the Landrover guys - series 1 and 2.
Peter |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: 617a Help needed
petermerle - 3/21/2007 1:42 PM
Here in SA the chassis don't seem to have a rust problem - no salt is used on roads here . I don't know of anyone who has had their G chassis galvanised - although it quite popular amongst the Landrover guys - series 1 and 2.
Peter
Agreed Peter,,
I did it because the chassis paint was badly sandblasted / pitted and no paint shop here can match OM paint spec. Friend 1 has a sandblast biz. and friend 2 a galv shop and for $200 it looks quite bling. The main advantage was that it forced me to really strip the thing down properly. I eventually even stripped, sandblasted, powdercoated. electroplated door latches to axle housings etc etc. The truck was hand built once before....................
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