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Electrical Gremlin
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Posted 3/19/2007 3:13 PM
bbrah
Regular




Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
50
Electrical Gremlin

I've got a quick question that I didn't find on either forum archive or the g-tech section of clubgwagen.

Can anyone tell me where to find the fuel pump relay on my truck? It's an early 460 LWB (vin 460233170076xx).

I've been blowing fuses on circuit # 12 which causes my fuel pump to stop working. I assumed that either the pump was bad or the filter was clogged which would cause the pump to draw more than 16 amps. Well, I've got the pump out and hooked it up to a 12vdc power source and it seems to work. My next step is to run down the relay and replace it. If that doesn't work, I'll hotwire the pump and see if it still blows fuses. If so, then it must be a short somewhere else on the circuit.

Do you have any other ideas?

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

-BRAH

Bryan Brah

P.S. can someone PM me and let me know what happened with the other forum?
#67437
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Author
Posted 3/19/2007 5:08 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: Electrical Gremlin

My vin ends in 05486, so a touch earlier than yours, but in my truck the fuel pump relay is just a little tin-box relay behind the fuse panel, not the big plastic monster some others have.  You can check yours by pulling the safety plug on the fuel meter and turning on the key.  Fuel pump should run (or find 12v at black/red wire back there if pump is out) then pull the little metal box relay behind the fuse panel and see if the pump quits (or power goes away).  I actually liked having that kind of relay there because I knew that any of the plug-in relays I had for aux lights, head lights, etc could be plugged right in in it's stead in an emergency.  No special fuel pump relay to carry as spare.

-Dave G.

#67444 - in reply to #67437
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Posted 3/19/2007 5:12 PM
DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
5000
RE: Electrical Gremlin

bbrah - 3/19/2007 3:13 PM

I've got a quick question that I didn't find on either forum archive or the g-tech section of clubgwagen.

Can anyone tell me where to find the fuel pump relay on my truck? It's an early 460 LWB (vin 460233170076xx).

I've been blowing fuses on circuit # 12 which causes my fuel pump to stop working. I assumed that either the pump was bad or the filter was clogged which would cause the pump to draw more than 16 amps. Well, I've got the pump out and hooked it up to a 12vdc power source and it seems to work. My next step is to run down the relay and replace it. If that doesn't work, I'll hotwire the pump and see if it still blows fuses. If so, then it must be a short somewhere else on the circuit.

Do you have any other ideas?

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

-BRAH



Bryan Brah

P.S. can someone PM me and let me know what happened with the other forum?


The relay should be mounted high up under and behind the dash directly above your left foot. Did they have one in 1980?

If the "other forum" to which you're referring is BW, it's still there.
#67445 - in reply to #67437
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Posted 3/19/2007 7:36 PM
PolishEagle
Regular




Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle(s): 2003 G500; 2002 CLK55 1981 380SL; 2007 R320
Posts: 66
50
RE: Electrical Gremlin

But Dutch was banned from it for replying to the forum while naked at the keyboard!!!!!!
#67456 - in reply to #67437
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Posted 3/19/2007 8:00 PM
Ed Mclass
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Vehicle(s): 1958 180a, 2010 GLK, 2000 G 500, 2005 SLK 350
Posts: 1215
1000
Re: Electrical Gremlin

Over top of your left knee just behind the dash on the '86 280 GE. I found the part and swapped it for a used one at the salvage yard. Many other models used the same part. Plug in.
#67461 - in reply to #67437
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Author
Posted 3/19/2007 8:11 PM
bbrah
Regular




Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
50
Re: Electrical Gremlin

Thanks everyone! I'll post when I get it all back together!

#67464 - in reply to #67461
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Author
Posted 5/14/2007 6:35 PM
bbrah
Regular




Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
50
Re: Electrical Gremlin

Update on the "electrical gremlins."

I removed the fuel pump, accumulator, and filter (and got a gas shower in the process), I checked the pump and it seemed to work fine when hooked up to a 12vdc power source. The filter, however was clogged with black sludge. Problem solved.

But wait there's more. I put everything back together, and the truck worked fine for two days. Then it wouldn't start. I checked the fuel pump, and it seemed to be working, but there was no fuel coming out of the fuel line at the engine.

I replaced the battery (an optima red top), and it started up first time. Apparently there wasn't enough juice to crank the starter and the fuel pump at the same time, anyway the battery was bad.

Again it worked fine for two days but started having the same problem, no fuel at the engine. Checked the pump again, and it wasn't running when I turned the key. (banged it a couple of times with a wrench and started humming).

Replaced the pump, and everything it seems to be working fine.

Long story short. Apparently a clogged fuel filter was causing my fuel pump to draw too much current and blow fuses which eventually burned out the pump.

The moral (or morel if you like mushrooms), replace your fuel filter to save your pump.

-BRAH
#74354 - in reply to #67464
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Posted 5/15/2007 10:33 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Re: Electrical Gremlin

Thanks for reporting back!  Too many of these threads reamain open ended.  It's lots more valuable to people following on or searching when the actual resolution of the problem is posted.

And I agree with you 1000% on regular maintenance being the key to preventing all kinds of ills.  The ones we anticipate, yes.  But when you think about it maintenance is really the ONLY weapon you have against unanticipated stuff.  So...

Change that oil and filter every 3k miles, even though the manual says you can go farther.

Change that hydraulic fluid in all the brake, clutch, and locker systems every two years even though you've had vehicles with the same fluid in them for 10 years.  This is teh very best thing you can do to avoid problems with brake, clutch, and locker slave and master cylinders

Change those wiper blades every year even though they seem to wipe the window okay, how much extra load are the worn or floppy ones putting on the motor and linkage?

Spark plugs and wires look fine after the recommended 12k mile change interval?  Change them anyway rather than have them putting undue loads on other ignition system components.  And do a compression test on the cylinders while you're at it so a low cylinder isn't causing destructive vibrations that you don't notice due to their gradual onset.

Truck seem to run fine?  Have a fuel system pressure test done every 2-3 years anyway to catch problems early rather than wait for them to progress.  Is this the vehicular equivalent of the prostate exam?  It is sort of "looking up the tailpipe in a manner of imagining....  :^)  Same goes true for CO setting and idle speed.  Keep them set by the book to be sure the engine's having it's easiest life.

Belts?, hoses?  No brainer.  Replace every two years and check tension every 6 mo.  A $20 belt isn't worth the walk back to civilization, or even the inconvenience of a road side repair for a sudden failure.  Not to mention the catastrophic effects if the thing breaks badly and results in radiator or engine damage.

Suspension parts like bushings and ball joints?  If your car's got 100k miles and they haven't been done, then do them preventatively.  They don't owe you anything and will save their own cost in premature tire wear by replacing them proactively.

Okay, I'll shut up.  Lesson here?  Think of how many places you could take action to make something that's "okay" be really right and as a result have a more reliable and longer lasting vehicle under you.

-Dave G.

#74421 - in reply to #74354
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Posted 5/15/2007 12:29 PM
4x4abc



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
5000
Re: Electrical Gremlin

I am 100% with Dave - prevent! Life is better without worries.

In addirion I carry a few vital parts which could leave me stranded if they failed.
Starter, CPS and fan belt.

What I learned from off-road racers, rather than stuffing those parts away
(and then you can't find them when you need them) - keep them as close to the original
part as possible (doesn't work with the starter though).

Here is my fan belt:



(belt.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments belt.jpg (101KB - 0 downloads)
#74433 - in reply to #74421
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Posted 5/15/2007 12:53 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
Spares storage

Hey Harald,

I'd consider a different place for that belt.  One of the chief enemies of rubber is heat.  Underhood storage of the belt will degrade it before it ever turns a revolution on the engine.  Colocation is okay in racing when time is money.  But the casual off roader alone in the outback would be better served by a part who's reliability was better perserved in a cool, dark storage location at the cost of taking a minute or two to retrieve when needed.

I learned that lesson with the main fuse on my Honda motorcycle last year.  The bike quit and I coasted to a safe spot to investigate.  I checked the main fuse (it's a simple strip of metal) and it LOOKED fine, but when I touched it with the blade of my always-handy multi-tool, it fell to pieces.  Honda was nice enough to provide a replacement fuse strip right next to the old one where it had been riding along since the bike rolled off the assembly line in 1984.  Air, heat, moisture, what have you, was having it's way with the spare part all that time and although it hadn't been carrying current, it too was badly degraded by the elements and cracked as I tried to remove it from it's storage place!  It didn't break though and I was able to use it to reach an auto parts store where I bought a regular blade type fuse holder with pig-tail wires to replace the stock fuse.

Lesson learned though.  The spares are only as good as the condition in which one can expect to find them when needed!  It would be a shame if the heat-degraded belt only got you a few more miles along the remote trail before giving up itself.

I need to think about keeping a list of parts and tools that are on board, and where they're kept.  I once had an alternator belt break and not only did I not have the belt (would have been happy for even a degraded one!), but after walking 3-4 miles to find a belt and return to the car, I spent an hour replacing the belt using what I thought were the only tools I had - open end wrenches, when I could have done the job n 1/2 the time if I'd remembered the sockets I had stored in a location different from my main tool roll.  Your point is a great one that parts (or tools) not right to hand may be forgotten or misplaced.  I think the best answer is to store the stuff in the best locations, and keep a list in the glove box of what's where.  The list could serve double duty as a pre-trip check out...Like I would have benefitted from on my last trip when I was half way across Utah before thinking about the fact that the new transmisison might just leak and need topping up, but I'd left my 14mm allen socket at home in the garage after filling up the trans.  Luckilly the trans didn't leak, so I didn't have to find a 14mm bolt head to improvise with!

I need a list!

-Dave G.

PS - you're my hero building that place in Baja.  I sure hope I can make a trip down to visit one day.

#74438 - in reply to #74433
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