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cyntaxx
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
| Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
I'm considering doing a small aftermarket stereo in my G to add bit more thump (even the factory C-Class acoustics sound more rich than the G's!). However, I don't want to put unnecessary stress on my alternator (or have my headlights dim everytime I turn up the radio) and was wondering what the best route is. I'm not looking for earth-shattering bass here - one or two 10-inch subs and a 500-600 watt amp would be would be ideal if not overkill. Will I need a cap at those power levels? Also, is downfiring/sealed the best enclosure if I were to place the box in the cargo area?
Eventually, I would like to do the entire stereo over - is it a pain in the rear to replace the center speaker? What size is it?
(I have a 2002 G500, which I believe does not have an external amplifier powering the mids-highs nor a subwoofer like the 2003 and up HK systems do)
Thanks!
P.S. Would appreciate pics/details of any G's with aftermarket setups! |
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
The M-B Audio & Telematics Forum on this website will probably give you as much help as anywhere. |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
I had a a pair diamond 10 inch subs with an Alpine v12 amp pushing about 600 watts to the 2 subs in my old ml. Never had a problem. Same battery and subs for 5 years, never killed the battery, never dimmed the headlights, you should be fine. Now if you were going to do my setup from HS, we might talk. Two Soundstream SPL 12's running on a PPI 2350 amp with MB Quart components in the doors and a PPI 2100 amp... |
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W5YK
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, Unimog U2450,
Posts: 543
| RE: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
You are right about the 2002 - it has all the speakers connected to the Command directly. no external amplifiers. The stock speakers and wiring are not good enough for what you want, you would be better off replacing everything if you want to go to 500W.
I think the big capacitors are bit of a gimmick unless you want absolutely enormous power and dynamic range. After all, the battery is electrically identical to a very big capacitor. You can pull many hundreds of amps out of it for peaks and that's enough to sound very very loud. The alternator is plenty capable of keeping up with a 500W system.
It's not too hard to pull the center speaker (search the forum). But there isn't much room for a bigger one to put in it's place. Ditto for the rears.
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cyntaxx
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
| RE: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Dunno what setup I'm going to run but it won't be over 600 watts for the sub(s), maybe even less. Any details on your enclosure? I haven't done a "system" since high school and back then it was trunk-rattling bass out of two Ground Zero Hydrogen 12s with a Rockford 1400 watt amp and a two farad cap.
I may just do one JL W7 10 inch with a JL 500.1 mono (class D) amp. |
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KERR
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Everyone has a differnt idea on how they want to use there space. I love the room in the G so the game plan we had to was to enclose the floor in the rear where the inner finders are. think of it as a box that sets flat on the floor with a cover that's on top of the finders. this would run from the seat to the door. The subs would beinside the box and the amps under the rear seats.. or inside the box as well. Depending on how big and how many subs you want you could make half the "box" for the stereo and the other half, ( closest to the rear door) a storage compartment. Then cover it in black carpet and 90% of the people would not even know its there. For me it would still let me throw strollers and my other crap in the back and not have to worry about damaging a sub or amp because they are "hidden" in the fake floor.
I wasnt going to do anything huge. two amps, one for subs one for mids and tweets... looked at infinity Perfects for the doors and dash and 6x9 that are in the back... then two cheaper subs. I like running two amps, i had a huge autotech take crap on me in one of the cars. The channel thatt powered the 4 subs went out.. no way to fix it.. So i had $2500 amp that didnt work and was out of warranty. Now i always run two or 3 amps if i have to.. Just get the amp for the power of those speakers.
technology has come so far over the years on stereo stuff you can get as much bass out of a 8' sub with 200 wats that 12's and 15 where hitting years ago with 800.. Also wthing "box" desigen of the G almost anything will jam in there!
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cyntaxx
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
KERR,
The plan is to do something very mild so I may end up doing one small 10 (W7 may be overkill now that I think about it) with a 300-400 watt amp, and then maybe another later on for the mids-highs. I don't really have near-term plans to strip the whole system out just yet.
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
A W-7 will pound the living crap out of your G given enough power. That being said, a W-7 is enormously heavy and requires an extraordinary amount of power. I spent my HS years as a trunk jockey at a car stereo install joint. The question you need to ask yourself is this...do I want to rock out with my c$%k out in the car, or do I want to get everyones attention outside the car? If you just want it to sound good to you, find something super clean and power it with quality power as opposed to sheer power. Figure out what you are looking for and I can probably point you in the right direction. I had an A/D/S aluminum 12 at one point under the back seat of a D-90, that thing rocked. As for my two 10's in the ML, I had a ported box, covered in factory tan carpet. The box was a single chamber and was not sloppy at all. |
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KERR
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
im pretty sure you will have to upgrade you mids and high's if you plan on doing a sub.
The local shop did some 10 or 12 inch in a honda. that sub was like 100lbs and looked the magnet looked like some nucular reactor thingee.. Its total over kill but thats what the 16 year old wanted. so far it broken the welds loose in the trunk lid and roof supports.. it sould like crap out side car because the sheet mettal is flapping in the wind lol.... kid will loose his hearing in a few years anyway so its all good.
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
We put a Soundstream Mule in the back of a guy's Acura Integra hatchback, the next day he came in to have us take it out...he blew the window right out of the rear hatch. |
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KERR
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
not that this has anything to do with what where talking about but back in aug 1994 a friend of mine was in Auto Sound and Security. The article was 32 Bass-o-Matic...
Scotty had 32 twelves in a astro van... i cant find sound and securitys web page to see if its on line the archives section... kinda cool but total over kill... hard to beleive that was 13 yars ago... |
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Fenalaar
Elite Veteran
Date registered: May 2006
Location: Narvik, Norway
Vehicle(s): 2001 ML270CDI, Polaris 400L Big Boss
Posts: 826
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Hmm, boys - take a look at this: http://www.snutter.no/app/viewMovie.action?id=2222 (Be sure to watch the entire thing...)
Now, ricer boy c$%k size contests aside...
How much will the alternator charging capacity be dependant on engine revs ?
The reason I ask, is that I can observe a noticeable difference between battery capacity after driving for several hours inside the city, with frequent stops (that is, idle running, not multiple engine start/stops) and when driving long trips at say 70-80km/h average speed.
Johan-Kr |
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cyntaxx
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Haha! That vid takes me back to my high school days, before the speed bug bit I was big into car audio. Then, it was all about shedding weight (100 lbs. = 1/10th, right?) so the stereo was out of the picture. Now that I have an SUV where speed will never happen and room is ample, my mind is starting to work like a 16 year-old's again!
I'm not opposed to a little bass in my G but the last thing I want is to have to dynomat the entire vehicle to *try* and prevent all the inevitable little squeaks and rattles that occur over time (when subjected to 140+dB).
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cyntaxx
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Adoni - 3/28/2007 12:18 PM
A W-7 will pound the living crap out of your G given enough power. That being said, a W-7 is enormously heavy and requires an extraordinary amount of power. I spent my HS years as a trunk jockey at a car stereo install joint. The question you need to ask yourself is this...do I want to rock out with my c$%k out in the car, or do I want to get everyones attention outside the car? If you just want it to sound good to you, find something super clean and power it with quality power as opposed to sheer power. Figure out what you are looking for and I can probably point you in the right direction. I had an A/D/S aluminum 12 at one point under the back seat of a D-90, that thing rocked. As for my two 10's in the ML, I had a ported box, covered in factory tan carpet. The box was a single chamber and was not sloppy at all.
I'm looking for a mild system, something to add a little bass for now. I prefer SQL over SPL now so tight and clear versus loud and low. I don't really want to pour too much money into it either and prefer for it all to be as hidden or OEM-looking as possible. Don't want to sacrifice too much room in the cargo area but there's no need to mount free-air shallow subs in the doors either. A small box behind the rear seats with an amp rack is fine - I do haul miscellaneous items so I prefer everything tucked and out of harm's way.
Any suggestions? I'm thinking an Eclipse or Diamond Audio aluminum 10 inch sub downfiring and sealed with a 300 WRMS mono amp tucked away somewhere? I've also been warned against mounting an amp under the rear seats for fear of it getting too hot...any truth in this? |
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ewalberg
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
I put an 8w7 back there. I've got an old Fosgate 600a4 (actually puts out 750w)... front dash and front footwell speakers and get amplfiier power, rears are all still on deck power but faded way down. Rear channels on the Amp bridged to run the sub. Plenty loud. If you know much about the JL w7 series you know they're pretty much equivalent to 2" larger driver becuase of excursion and the way they manage their cone area. I'm quite pleased with it. I can turn up the base too loud for the average listener. Mines obviously firing at the rear door. Figuring out hot to protect it is the trick since it's excurions makes it too long for most all grills i could find. You'll be surprised what stock speakers can do with a little real power and crossover... an equalizer as well. Mine badly needed an EQ and luckily i had a convenient place to put it... the newer trucks should be a bit better balanced so the EQ might not be so necessary, but a real amp for front speakers and a real sub... for sure.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/g-class/40826-rear-bump... |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Well I had the aluminum diamonds (10's) in my ML, real nice speakers. I've heard good things about Alpine Type R's. I used to be in love with JL's, but I'm reminded of my brother having three JL W6 10's in the trunk of his Audi A4...Would you want to replace your door speakers or add subs first or do both? I'm a big proponent of adding good components before adding bass. Do you intend to keep the stock head unit? If so, you will be looking at adding a bass cube. Are you comfortable with taking out your head unit/nav to add an aftermarket head unit? It is possible to rewire your head unit with higher end components to operate and aftermarket system.
Edited by Adoni 3/28/2007 10:52 PM
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Woops, I just realized that you have a 2000, so no nav, that makes things much easier... |
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cyntaxx
Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
| RE: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Actually, I have a 2002 and would like to retain the stock head unit/navigation.
I'm more or less just looking to add a sub for right now - maybe another multi-channel amp for the stock mids and highs if it's not too much of a hassle. |
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Adoni
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle(s): '00 G500, '15 C300 4Matic, '06 L322 G4
Posts: 1283
| Re: Alternator capacity regarding stereo (amps+subs)
Well in that case, I would recommend the Aluminum diamond since I have had them before. I think that you will find that one 10 will be plenty. You can look at the Alpine Type R as well, I recommend going to a car audio shop and listening to both of them. Bring a CD with music you reguarly listen to and play it. Figure out which sub sounds better with the music you like. I cannot stress the importance of spending the extra money for a custom built box. It makes all the difference in the world. Due to the fact that you are keeping the stock head unit, buy a bass cube, this will allow you to control the bass level of the sub without altering your mids. I find that a ported box works best for a wide array of music. Sealed boxes work better for rap/hip hop applications, however, I listened to plenty of underground hip-hop in college and never had any qualms about my ported box. As for power, I have always liked PPI. PPI is a steady state amplifier as opposed to a peak watt rating which is the way most amplifiers rate their power. A PPI 2100 would rock the living sh** out of a single 10. And to be honest, you could actually split the PPI and use one channel with plenty of extra for the one 10 then use the second channel for the door speakers. |
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