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| rstl99 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Hi all, Enjoy reading all the posts. I am thinking of acquiring a used G (mid-80's, diesel, LWB) in the next few months, and am on the lookout for good specimens. Ideally, I would try to get one with the OM617A turbo-diesel retrofitted into it. My envisioned usage will be: - Tinkering and maintaining a great vehicle (I own a diesel Benz sedan from early 80s and appreciate the solid engineering and durability of these cars; and like to tinker in my garage) - Occasional commute to work (I live and drive in the city) - Pulling a small fiberglass camper for weekend camping and trips within 2-3 hours of where I live, during the summer months - Driving the backroads around where I live (I am not into intense off-roading, so gravel or dirt roads would be the limit of what I would put the vehicle through) - I would NOT drive the vehicle in the winter months, because of road salt applied liberally where I live (North-East) - Once I retire from public service (in 4 years) I would like to head off on lengthy road trips in North-America (either towing a small camper, or equipped with a roof-top tent, or fashioning sleeping arrangements inside). Regarding the latter, I am concerned about suffering some mechanical breakdown in some remote locality and not being able to get quick repair work done. For that reason, I am also toying with the option of purchasing a Dodge pickup with Cummins diesel, and equipping it with a truck camper, for such traveling/camping. I don't think I could afford both a G and a Dodge Cummins, so am wondering if the G would prove a suitable vehicle for all my needs. THoughts and ideas would be much appreciated! Thanks. | ||
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| Brent Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: SW Colorado USA Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI Posts: 1754  | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Finding one with the turbodiesel already done will be difficult. Those who endure the pain of an engine swap generally keep the trucks, but good luck anyway. As far as driving around the country in any 460 G-wagen, it will be an exercise in patience. It is highly unlikely that you will be able to maintain speed limits in the western states, much less stay with the flow of traffic. Rooftop campers or any trailer will exacerbate the problem and the turbodiesel, while excellent will only help so much. That said the G is incredibly durable. If you start your long journey with a properly serviced G, it will easily take whatever you might throw at it. You are already familiar with the engine. Parts are pretty easy to come by as the service items except maybe the air filter are usually just sedan parts. I have seen a 280GE driven from SoCal to Moab UT and back for just a weekends off-roading. Another came on a trailer and drove home to California after the event. I have driven 463 series G's cross country several times, as has DUTCH, and probably many others. I have never been stranded. As far as the Dodge truck, I have owned quite a few of them. I personally think the pre 2002 and older trucks have too many issues for me. The engine is incredible but the steering and front suspension on the 4x4s has issues. The auto trans prior to 2003 is also something to avoid. The problem is, for a decent 2003+ with the Cummins, you will pay much more than for a 300GD. | ||
| #70304 - in reply to #70301 |
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| rstl99 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Hi Brent, and thanks for your thoughts, very useful to me. Indeed, the 5 cyl turbo conversions may not be the most readily available on the market, unfortunately. Sounds like they adequately address the weight/power issue with these trucks. And indeed, as you point out rooftop tents or trailers would further limit the ability of the non-turbo vehicle to keep up with what seems like faster and faster traffic on our roads. The gas model (280) would probably be fine, but I can't justify the fuel costs associated with lengthy trips in a vehicle like that. I'm hoping to get something that will get at least 20mpg, given the price of gasoline/diesel these days... As you say, confidence in heading out on a lengthy road trip in a 20 year old vehicle in large part hinges on the mechanical condition of the vehicle, and the owner's ability to detect and correct some problems as they occur. Indeed, the g-wagen seems to be a reasonably straightforward vehicle (the earlier models), so as long as the main wearable mechanical components are addressed before departing, unforeseen breakdowns should not be too difficult to deal with, especially if like me, someone doesn't envision heading out on some major off-road activities with it. Thanks for your input about the Dodge trucks. I've been on a few Dodge Cummins sites, and people there flaunt the rock-solid and bullet-proof nature of their trucks (as do Land-Cruiser, Land-Rover, and other vehicle aficionados, let's face it - everyone thinks their vehicle is "the best", for whatever reason), even the older simpler generations. However as you point out, there is no perfect vehicle (not even the g-wagen) and all of them have their "Achille's heels". Plus, it's often a matter of condition and how the vehicle was used and maintained previously. Anyway, you've given me some good food for thought. I would appreciate getting other thoughts from others along these lines as well, and others may also be interested in this discussion. Cheers. | ||
| #70320 - in reply to #70304 |
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| Jonathan Joseph Expert Date registered: Oct 2006 Location: Charleston, South Carolina Vehicle(s): 2004 G55 Posts: 1538 | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? While I'm not as experienced as many here, I have put about 15000 miles on my 86 300GD in 15 months. Of course I have had mechanical problems but never a failure that left me on the side of the road. My G was average to poorly maintained when I got it, with lots of issues to address. I am still working on many of them but drive the truck every(every!) day. I certainly wouldn't leave on a long trip without the knowledge that everything was in good order, but once establishing that baseline I think you'll be ok. I intend to do some long distance traveling also. I think one of my favorite things about these trucks is that are built so well that most items give alot of warning before failing. I'd be interested to see what others have to say on this point. Are there certain components on 460s prone to unpredictablr sudden failure? I think the answer to whether a 460 is appropriate for this work is extremely subjective. A Ferrari is too slow for some people. I prefer to travel through life slow enough to enjoy it. Jonathan | ||
| #70331 - in reply to #70301 |
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| roughneck Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: UK, Germany & USA Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2 Posts: 4398  | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? IMHO. The 460 diesel or petrol was superceded many moons ago by more capable more comfortable vehicle types, many that can be purchased for a lot less than a used G twice the age, but I will always run at least one for nostalgia, I limit it to local area and towing my daughters two ponies to shows, any thing larger than ponies and I use my Ford Ranger and ditto for longer drives like to motorsport meetings in Europe if I am not flying. For a comfortable drive I am now considering an M class. But the one I will always enjoy the most and have the most fun and feel the best in, the one I will be seen under the hood with spanners strewn all round will be a G 460 Ive done the 617a thing the STT conversion the 280 high compresion engine etc etc, unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money on a very recent G 463 you will never go fast in a G. but you will almost always get there. and almost always when you do people will ask you what it is and laugh:) | ||
| #70335 - in reply to #70301 |
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| Maxwell Smart Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Thanks for the good chuckle roughneck! roughneck - 4/16/2007 11:12 PM I will always run at least one for nostalgia How about "I will always run at least three or maybe four or five for nostalgia...." And an M class? I knew that getting you into a 463 was too good to be true!  | ||
| #70336 - in reply to #70335 |
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| DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963  | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? I drove my 1984 280GE cross country at 80-85 mph between Atlanta and northern AZ and southern UT 6-8 times. (I lost count.) One time I had to drive it clutchless from Canyon de Chelly to Santa Fe to get the clutch slave replaced. After that I always carried a spare. On another trip, I wore out the steering dampner (on the road out to Torroweap, Dave); and that just made the truck hard to drive at highway speed in crosswinds. I had the grommets on the shifter linkage go often enough on that truck so that I always carried spares of them, too. Needless to say, a good toolkit is an important piece of kit, too. I've driven the 2000 G500 to SW CO & SE UT 4-5 times, including 3 with the KimberleyKamper behind. Had the whole thing come to a halt with complete electrical failure on one of those trips. Good thing I had the home phone for a good mechanic in Santa Fe who helped me jury rig it well enough to get home. Later found that the previous owner had someone work on the electrical block behind the fuse box; and they had really badly screwed up one of the main power cables. Since that's been fixed, there haven't been any major problems, although I have busted a vacuum line on the diff locks; but that was not mission critical to the trip. Both G's average about 15mpg at those speeds, but the G500 will get you to speed quicker and is a heckuva lot more comfortable. That being said, having now owned a 2007 ML320CDI for 4 months and about 7,000 miles, I can tell you that the highway miles are an order of magnitude more comfortable in it compared to the G's; and 25mpg is pretty darned sweet, too. (Now, which one will I take to the Treffen this Fall?!??) | ||
| #70338 - in reply to #70301 |
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| Brent Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: SW Colorado USA Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI Posts: 1754 | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? DUTCH - 4/16/2007 4:35 PM (Now, which one will I take to the Treffen this Fall?!??) You may bring the ML, IF...you promise to run all the trails I take the 280 on  | ||
| #70345 - in reply to #70338 |
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| DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Brent - 4/16/2007 7:47 PM DUTCH - 4/16/2007 4:35 PM (Now, which one will I take to the Treffen this Fall?!??) You may bring the ML, IF...you promise to run all the trails I take the 280 on :ohno:  Heck, you took the 280 on trails I wouldn't take the G500 on. No deal!  | ||
| #70348 - in reply to #70345 |
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| ewalberg Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany Vehicle(s): 2000 g500 Posts: 1887 | Re: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? One more thing to consider... if you have a deisel and you only drive in the warm months you can pretty easily switch to recycled veggie oil. At colder times you'll need tank heaters and such. There's at least one fellow around here that pays 10 cents a gallon for his fual after including the recurring cost of filters etcetera. | ||
| #70352 - in reply to #70301 |
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| sjtymko G-Class Photo Host Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: Canada, AB, Sherwood Park (Edmonton) Vehicle(s): 2002 G500, 2009 B200 Posts: 511  | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? I don't know excatly what you mean by a "small fibreglass camper" but I have a 1975 13 foot Boler "egg" ~1200lbs (for sale right now) and when I pull it I don't even know it is there. Very small difference in accelleration and almost no difference in fuel use. A complete joy to pull. This might help. Steve | ||
| #70371 - in reply to #70301 |
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| roughneck Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: UK, Germany & USA Vehicle(s): 270 cdi.300 GD 300 GE.lwb 300 GE.swb. Disco 2 Posts: 4398 | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? The coefficient of comfort is directly related to age and so is speed but inversely | ||
| #70375 - in reply to #70301 |
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| rstl99 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Thanks for all the input and insights. Indeed, comfort is becoming more important to me with each passing year, especially since I turned 50. So I've got to pay attention to the comfort level of driving long distances in an 80's G (unlike some of you here, I can't afford the newer ones, let alone a brand new ML!!!). Veggie oil may indeed be an option during the warm months, but there I'd be concerned about adequacy of supply along the north-american routes. I do indeed own a 13 foot Boler-like fiberglass camper (it's a Trillium brand), I think it weighs something like 1200 pounds. And thanks for the confirmation that it does not pose a problem for a G (weight is probably insignificant compared to a loaded horse trailer!). Not sure I'd feel comfortable towing something like that across North-America and up and down gravel roads, but it's indeed an option for me. The Dodge/Cummins solution is still appealing to me for long-distance travel with a truck camper. Repairable anywhere if need be, cheap parts. The other option I was looking at are the diesel Land Cruiser wagons (BJ60 HJ60) that were sold in Canada in the 80's. But good specimens (they were very rust-prone) are quite scarce, and most have quite high mileage. Some people are importing nice ones from Japan (turbo diesel, plush interior, zero rust, low mileage), but they are RHD... Decisions...decisions... | ||
| #70393 - in reply to #70301 |
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hipine Date registered: Jul 2006 Location: US, CO, Bailey Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? I used to have a lot of fun kidding around with a friend of mine whether he was a RIDER or a MOTORCYCLE OWNER. I see the same differences between G-wagon OWNERS and G-wagen DRIVERS. I hope I can fall into the latter category driving a G with just under 350,000 miles on the clock of which I've done the last 130k at a rate of about 20k/year and re-vamping the drive line from 280 4 speed to 300turbodiesel 5 speed to suit my desires. The most practical choice for what you want to do is by far the Dodge truck and camper. But if practicality were your only concern, you wouldn't be here now would you? I sense you're like a lot of us here and also place some value in...well, ....that-which-can-not-be-named. And the G solution has that in spades. If you enjoy working on your MB a little bit, the G will be no different. In my experience, it'll get you through a lot without leaving you stranded. But as others have said, blasting down the highway at 80+ mph is not the forte of the G. It can be done, yes, as Dutch said he did it many times in his 280GE as did I. But you won't see him trading in his ML for an old 280GE anytime soon. Personally, I don't feel like I have to be the fastest thing on the highway. My G manages speed limits just fine, and did as a 280 as well. The exception being some of the grades up to high mountain passes, but even those were just a downshift away and never below 45 mph. I drove a normally aspirated 2.25L Land Rover diesel long enough to know that 45 on a 7% grade can be an unattainable luxury. :^). So how's this for an idea. Start looking now for a nice 300GD long wheelbase model. Take a year to find a decent one that you don't have to give an arm and a leg for. (HINT - USE THIS LIST EXTENSIVELY). Then drive it around for a while. If at any time you decide, "man, this is just not for me", you can sell it for what you paid for it, and pick up a Dodge off any used car lot. By the time retirement comes around, you won't have to wonder if the G is right for you, you'll absoluetely know, and you haven't much to risk except a little time shopping for a G. And no, I don't happen to have one for sale, unless you'd like to build your own G RV in which case I have a spare chassis for you to start with that even has most of a 300 GD engine on it. :^) All the best, and well met. Sounds like you came to the right place. -Dave G. Edited by hipine 4/17/2007 10:16 AM | ||
| #70406 - in reply to #70301 |
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| Brent Expert Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: SW Colorado USA Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI Posts: 1754 | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? rstl99 - 4/17/2007 6:42 AM Thanks for all the input and insights. Indeed, comfort is becoming more important to me with each passing year, especially since I turned 50. So I've got to pay attention to the comfort level of driving long distances in an 80's G (unlike some of you here, I can't afford the newer ones, let alone a brand new ML!!!). Veggie oil may indeed be an option during the warm months, but there I'd be concerned about adequacy of supply along the north-american routes. I do indeed own a 13 foot Boler-like fiberglass camper (it's a Trillium brand), I think it weighs something like 1200 pounds. And thanks for the confirmation that it does not pose a problem for a G (weight is probably insignificant compared to a loaded horse trailer!). Not sure I'd feel comfortable towing something like that across North-America and up and down gravel roads, but it's indeed an option for me. The Dodge/Cummins solution is still appealing to me for long-distance travel with a truck camper. Repairable anywhere if need be, cheap parts. The other option I was looking at are the diesel Land Cruiser wagons (BJ60 HJ60) that were sold in Canada in the 80's. But good specimens (they were very rust-prone) are quite scarce, and most have quite high mileage. Some people are importing nice ones from Japan (turbo diesel, plush interior, zero rust, low mileage), but they are RHD... Decisions...decisions... Don't bet on cheap parts for the Cummins. If it has a 24v version of the engine it runs an injection pump that is $1000-1500. At this age it is difficult to tell if the previous owner maintained the lift pump well enough to keep the inj pump healthy. You need to focus on the 1998 and earlier 12v versions in order to avoid the pump issue. Older ones are indeed pretty bulletproof. Then you are up against the issue of the chassis. The 10-15 yr old Dodge isn't going to hold up like the 20+ yr old G. If lots of gravel roads are planned the G is certainly the better choice for comfort. The lumber wagon Dodge, especially if you go with a full leaf spring 1st generation truck (89-92), will pound you. I don't see the difference as far as an en route repair. I don't think the G is any more likely to break, probably less so, nor would I anticipate a crippling "no parts" situation with the G, that would be exceedingly rare. Remember, G's are very often used for expeditions far more ambitious than what you plan. Short of the UNIMOG, the G is probably the finest expedition vehicle you can find. The 460's simplicity is ideal for your trek. | ||
| #70407 - in reply to #70393 |
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| DUTCH Administrator Doppelgänger Date registered: Apr 2006 Location: US, GA, Atlanta Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter Posts: 9963 | G-RV hipine - 4/17/2007 10:14 AM And no, I don't happen to have one for sale, unless you'd like to build your own G RV in which case I have a spare chassis for you to start with that even has most of a 300 GD engine on it. :^) All the best, and well met. Sounds like you came to the right place. -Dave G. There is that diesel G-RV in AlBQ which used to (or still does) belong to Dave Holland; but knowing Dave, it's probably quite pricey. Russ Leabch could tell you for sure. | ||
| #70409 - in reply to #70406 |
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| rstl99 Date registered: Dec 1899 Location: Vehicle(s): | RE: G ownership - long distance driving concerns? Dave: Well met indeed, and thanks for your thoughts! (I've pinged you offline with a few other thoughts). >>The most practical choice for what you want to do is by far the Dodge truck and camper. But if practicality were your only concern, you wouldn't be here now would you? Indeed, you are quite right. There is something immensely appealing about older G ownership, that seems a very strong value-fit with my vehicular preferences and "philosophy" (my 2 cars are the 82 Benz diesel sedan and a 92 Volvo 240 wagon, both fine examples of solid, practical and durable designs - as is the G-wagen obviously). >>I drove a normally aspirated 2.25L Land Rover diesel long enough to know that 45 on a 7% grade can be an unattainable luxury. I owned a slightly "better" 2.5 L n/a LR 110 so know exactly what you mean! I also owned before that a MB L406D converted 24 foot delivery van to camper/RV, powered by a OM616 engine! Now with THAT vehicle a speed of 10-15 MPH on a 7% grade would have been good. A 300GD would feel fast compared to these two!! >>So how's this for an idea. Start looking now for a nice 300GD long wheelbase model. Take a year to find a decent one that you don't have to give an arm and a leg for. (HINT - USE THIS LIST EXTENSIVELY). Then drive it around for a while. That sounds like a great idea, and one which takes a lot of self-induced pressure from my shoulders, as I have been contemplating so many options, and driving myself silly pondering the various pros and cons etc. Indeed, tips/input from people on this list will be invaluable in this search! Brent: Thanks to you as well for your further thoughts. Indeed, I have been advised by the Dodge community to seek out a 12 valve earlier Cummins equipped Dodge (Gen 2, 98 and earlier as you say), for the reasons you stated. And you are quite right, a 3/4 ton leaf spring early Dodge would have a very stiff ride on gravel roads up North! I test drove a 92 that felt rough on the highway! (it didn't have the camper on the back though). Thanks for the reminder that G's are often used on grueling expeditions (as are Land Cruisers and Land Rovers), so mainly on-road treks like I envision (paved or not) should not be too troubling, as long as I ensure that the vehicle is in sound condition before heading out. Well, with each message added to this thread, my knowledge and confidence increases. I thank all of you for contributing to my learning in this area! Cheers, --Robert | ||
| #70412 - in reply to #70301 |
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