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cmitch
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Ala-Tenn
Vehicle(s): 2002 ML320, 2005 S430 4Matic, 2010 F150 Super Crew
Posts: 3412
| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Marsden - 5/3/2007 9:42 PM Definitely...to NZB... the problem here is you can only get many of the more desirable options if you choose the larger (guzzling) V-8 engines.
It royally pisses me off because I like luxury and convenience features but I also like decent fuel economy. Obviously a marketing decision, but just as obviously one that seems not to have occurred to the Japanese makers who've been eating Mercedes's lunch for awhile now.. Most people just choose the V-8's because that's what's available then and there. You can still custom order an ML V-6 with everything a ML500 has. My ML320 was one of these orders. The original owner could have bought an ML500 for what they paid for htis optioned out ML320. Bad for them, good for me.  The GL450, however, IS the base model. You can spring for the 320CDI, but I believe it carries a premium because it's a diesel, right? I can't imagine a gasoline V-6 in a GL.
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AsianML
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| Re: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
The GL320 is actually about $1 grand cheaper than the GL450. That's the only diesel in the current lineup that's cheaper than the gas counterpart. |
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Roch207
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Palmetto State
Vehicle(s): 2005 E320 CDI, 2010 Silverado 2500HD
Posts: 3749
| Re: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Putting aside the product line, a major factor in the issue is production costs and profitablity. Labour concessions are a hot topic across ALL industries and services. Pensions, health care and salaries are squeezing profits. The UAW worker making $30/hr to bolt on a fender is receiving a health care package and retirement packager that is very expensive. Concessions were given to GM and Ford.
DC needed to come in and break the union. Fire everyone, and rehire scabs and documented aliens at $10.00 hour. Then you'd see a profitable division. This is my plan for when I buy Chrysler. |
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jdc1244
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
My experience with Chrysler products – however antidotal – has always been bad. My wife at the time and I owned a 1995 Voyager – except for its Mitsubishi engine it was a piece of junk by 60,000 miles. I had occasion to drive for a while (not own, thank god) a Dodge Shadow; I’ve never known a more dreadful car – the ergonomics were hideous and the engine blew at less then 90,000 miles. And my employee’s Le Baron spend more time in the shop than in the employees’ parking lot; after putting into it what he paid for it he finally got rid of it.
The K car, the Omni/Horizon, the Cordoba, this was my understanding and experience of the ‘history’ of Chrysler before 1998: crap, junk, poorly designed and poorly built rust buckets of planned obsolesce.
During the same time Chrysler was building and selling the K car, the Omni/Horizon, and the Cordoba Mercedes-Benz was building 107s, 116s, 123s, and 126s.
This is why the merger – for me, anyway – was so bizarre.
I can’t wait for the ‘volume’ carmaker to be sold, good riddance.
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NZ Benz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1993 300SEL/S320
Posts: 2555
| Re: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Roch207 - 5/4/2007 5:16 PM
Putting aside the product line, a major factor in the issue is production costs and profitablity. Labour concessions are a hot topic across ALL industries and services. Pensions, health care and salaries are squeezing profits. The UAW worker making $30/hr to bolt on a fender is receiving a health care package and retirement packager that is very expensive. Concessions were given to GM and Ford.
DC needed to come in and break the union. Fire everyone, and rehire scabs and documented aliens at $10.00 hour. Then you'd see a profitable division. This is my plan for when I buy Chrysler.
That or outsource. |
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AsianML
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| Re: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Our Dodge Grand Caravan has been near flawless. I'll admit that interior material quality is shitty (although the seats hold up well), the reliability and dependability has been close to our Nissan Maxima which NEVER went to the dealer except for scheduled maintenance until we sold it at 75k miles. |
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Marsden
Classic MB
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Capital City USA
Vehicle(s): Mercedes-Benz
| Re: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
AsianML - 5/4/2007 9:28 PM (although the seats hold up well), Funny you should mention... the E has had to have its drivers seat upholstery replaced at 8K miles. Must be my fat ass |
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iNeon
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
My Brother's K car had 250,000k on it when the second transmission died. Dad's Ram has 208,000 miles, leon has 152,000. Long service lives are NOT mutually exclusive to automobiles with stars on them.
Ergonomics? Is that what you call the ashtray/Stereo setup behind the shift lever in old Benzes?!? The individual window switches? 4 separate button pushes is NOT ergonomic-- it's more akin to "let's make only the dashpads change from region to region" or as I like to describe the ashtray arangement: "you can smoke whenever you want-- so long as it's whenever we designed the gear selection lever to not interfere with your ash receptical."
Those things would more correctly be called cost-cutting-- **not** ergonomic design.
Ergonnomics only come into play whenever you're talking about automobiles with switches completely out of reach for the driver-- everything else is just knowing the automobile well enough to know where things are and labeling. Ever look at the dash of a w115, or are you conveniently leaving that to history?
VW engineered the Hatchback Chryslers. They were restyled Rabbits. I'll concede on the 116/107/123/126 thing-- but only after saying that there are TREMENDOUS differences between $8,000 K cars and $30,000 luxury automobiles. It's easy to dismiss the commoner's car when it's compared to it's "cost is no object" contemporary.
Will you compare like automobiles now, instead of making conveniently edited information look like it supports your argument? The Calibre v. B comes to mind. The Pacifica v. R does as well. E v. 300 is very interesting seeing as how they've revised the w210 suspension so much that Benz is going to use it on the w212, isn't it? GL v. Commander, w164 v. Grand Cherokee.
We're talking about 2007 if you haven't noticed-- the 1970s(and Benzes superiority) ended quite some time ago-- come join us in current times. CHRYSLER BUILDS A BETTER AUTOMOBILE THAN BENZ NOW. I know it hurts your heart to see such a regal thing as the Mercedes-Benz be beaten by the lowly Chrysler, but many MANY of their cars since the models you've used in your argument have had CRITICALLY BAD ENGINEERING, and that isn't going to change just because they built a good product in the 70s and 80s. The opposite is also true.
The pre-merge Grand Cherokee was a better SUV than the w163. The neon outruns the w202 c220, it outhandles it, it is quite larger and was produced at the same time. It also made more profit for it's parent company, and cost it's owners less to purchase, mantain and own. The Viper v. 129? Pffft. Kraut never looked worse. Chrysler was on it's way up whenever the merger occured, and Benz had never built a stable of such lackluster and mundane automobiles as they had in the 1990-1998 years.
Intrepid v. w210? I'll take the hot dog-- no kraut, please. |
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AsianML
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| Re: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Where'd you get the "E v. 300 is very interesting seeing as how they've revised the w210 suspension so much that Benz is going to use it on the w212" from? |
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iNeon
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/challenger.html
Challenger v. CLK will be fun then  |
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AsianML
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Who is the supplier they refer to?
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iNeon
Date registered: Dec 1899
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Who knows. They're good guys over that way, and I believe them. The LX cars are wonderful-- a marriage of Father Benz and Mother Mopar. It's a tremendous union if the public will just accept it.
They're both making mistakes. Chrysler is in trouble for the SUV thing, and Benz is doing that along with diluting the brand by making a zillion forgettable cars and by forgetting their true market-- the upscale sedan and roadster people.
The best Chrysler can go one step above what they're letting them build, and the lower Benzes should leave. We should have the Ubersedan, the town car and the fairweather sporting model in a Benz and Chrysler should have the Imperial and send the PT back to Plymouth, along with the Scionesque ChinaCars they're about to burden us with.
Dodge is where it should be, but they need an econocar that isn't from China. A 40MPGer. The trucks are great, and Jeep has a good product in every segment.
The problems can be addressed and things could be terribly great if they'd just take action instead of 'phasing-in' plans and talking about it. Fingerpointing and hissy tantrums won't fix the hole the entire company is in, neither will selling off the majority of US customers by dumping Chrysler.
Don't forget that our Dodge dollars fund the development of your fancy new Benzes. |
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NZ Benz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1993 300SEL/S320
Posts: 2555
| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
iNeon - 5/5/2007 12:24 PMWe're talking about 2007 if you haven't noticed-- the 1970s(and Benzes superiority) ended quite some time ago-- come join us in current times. CHRYSLER BUILDS A BETTER AUTOMOBILE THAN BENZ NOW. I know it hurts your heart to see such a regal thing as the Mercedes-Benz be beaten by the lowly Chrysler, but many MANY of their cars since the models you've used in your argument have had CRITICALLY BAD ENGINEERING, and that isn't going to change just because they built a good product in the 70s and 80s. The opposite is also true.
The pre-merge Grand Cherokee was a better SUV than the w163. The neon outruns the w202 c220, it outhandles it, it is quite larger and was produced at the same time. It also made more profit for it's parent company, and cost it's owners less to purchase, mantain and own. The Viper v. 129? Pffft. Kraut never looked worse. Chrysler was on it's way up whenever the merger occured, and Benz had never built a stable of such lackluster and mundane automobiles as they had in the 1990-1998 years.
Intrepid v. w210? I'll take the hot dog-- no kraut, please.
Well thats about as subjective as they come...... |
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iNeon
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Howso? |
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NZ Benz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1993 300SEL/S320
Posts: 2555
| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
iNeon - 5/5/2007 7:43 PM
Howso?
Simply because you say it does not make it so. American cars are rubbish IMO, crappy interior big primitive engines and can't take corners. There are exactly three decent SUV's in production: The Range Rover, X5 and Toyota/Lexus Land crusier. My cousin has the 300C, my God what a crappy interior ugly as sin, crappy leather little slits for windows....I've also had an Aunt with the Jeep grand, no leg room in the back, no boot space crap interior. I'd much rather buy a Japanese car than any American one. I'd rather a Lexus LS or a Nissan Maxima than a caddi or a Lincoln.
As far as reliability is concerned Jag is an example of something that is massively unreliable when my Dad had his XJ6 it was the worst car mechanicly we had ever owned. My W140 pales in comparision to that.
As far as lack luster design is concerned IMO the W140 and the W129 are two designs that will stand out in years to come I think those two cars are some of the best MB has done for quite some time. Alot of people who don't even own Benz tell me that it's a great looking car and it looks more of a Mercedes than alot of the newer lines. But thats just my opinion and I'm not about to pass off personal opinion as fact like some others... |
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iNeon
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
Some are capable of making valid arguments without making personal attacks. Save that stuff for Off-Topic.
Want me to post long comparisons? |
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AsianML
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
iNeon - 5/5/2007 9:30 PM Some are capable of making valid arguments without making personal attacks. Save that stuff for Off-Topic. Want me to post long comparisons? Personal attacks? Where?
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NZ Benz
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Vehicle(s): 1993 300SEL/S320
Posts: 2555
| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
iNeon - 5/5/2007 9:30 PM
Some are capable of making valid arguments without making personal attacks. Save that stuff for Off-Topic.
Want me to post long comparisons?
As opposed to racially charged ones?
"Intrepid v. w210? I'll take the hot dog-- no kraut, please."
I've made no personal attack other than to say that opinion whilst always containing elements of truth more often than not is far from absolute. |
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jdc1244
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
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| RE: DCX Board Chairman Aims to Undo Schrempp Legacy
NZ Benz - 5/5/2007 8:04 PM
American cars are rubbish IMO...
Most Americans – including this one – would agree; and Americans have voted with their pocket books, which is why Toyota is number one. |
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