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Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question
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Posted 5/15/2007 10:55 AM
KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

So need some input from you all

1) Ball joints. Saturday night i picked up a friend of mine and we went to the tractor (truck) pulls. We made it about 80 feet and he said " wow you need ball joints" that shake and popping when you turn is ball joints.. my H1 eats them about 20K miles. Then once we hit the free way he said those are for sure ball joins the way the steering is shaking. ( shakes like warped rotors but your not on the brakes) Its also not the tires or steering stabilizer, I had the tired rebalanced and all 4 where with in 1oz of perfect.... i also replaced the steering stabilizer about 2 months ago.

So where / how do i have them checked, and what does a set of them cost? Also any way to get these covered under an extended warranty or is it the same a brakes?

2) Clicking sound. He also ask what that low speed clicking sound was, ( one i mentioned a few weeks ago) I thought it only made the sound turning but it does it driving slow too and apparently it's on both sides of the car not just the drivers side... He said it sounds like a rock in the tire... It also does this going from park to drive or drive to reverse or reverse to drive. I haven’t checked the "CV boots" but i don’t have Grease all of the bearings on the axles like you all posted.

3) Rotors, I have a massive shake when on the brakes... i know its time for rotor and pads... is valads still the best and cheapest place.. I saw the hole kit for $650 ish.. sensors, rotors, and pads for front and rear.. also what would expect labor to be on this in the amount of hours?

4) Air conditioning... About a year ago i posted that some times my G sounds like a water fall when the air is on. You guys told me not to worry about it that all do it and you can hear it because the dash is so close. At the time it was ever now and then, as in ever few days... Now its all the time... Also it's now making a whistling sound. Starts off slow and soft then get faster and louder until the high pitches sound just turns off. It reminds me of tea pop. This is a repeating cycle. Nothing, quite, louder, louder, louder, whistle then off... its gets so loud it drowns out the radio and AC noise when on high..

5) seats... my seats are doing the go forward when ever you touch the button. However they only do this when the door is closed. when the door is open they work like the should. IE back is back , up is up... door closed black is forwards, up is forwards, down is forwards....

6) ive noticed that now the temps are in the 70-90's daily my G does not want to drive normal in town. For the last few days ive had to go almost wide open to get a normal down shift. If you go wide open it takes about 30 second before it gets the lowest gear... Would this have something to with maybe a dirty throttle position sensor or something.


I know its a lot of questions but im thinking im to the end of the line. I feel like im starting all over again like it was before my last brain transplant. As all of you know i love the G, but im about tapped out on fixing stuff...
#74424
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Author
Posted 5/15/2007 11:14 AM
Brent
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SW Colorado USA
Vehicle(s): '13 Wolfsburg GTI
Posts: 1754
1000
RE: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

First, ignore your buddy, he doesn't seem to know anything about the G. His H1 with control arm independant suspension has ball joints. Your vastly superior G500 has solid axles and no ball joints.

If I am not mistaken your G has some miles on it by now. If you are over 70k it sounds to me like it is time for a front axle rebuild. Worn wheel bearings can cause many of the shaking symptoms you describe. The clicking is most likely CV's and you will find out for sure during the axle bearing service.

The brake service is certainly something you could do yourself in the driveway. Calipers, pads, rotors and sensors are all easily replaced with common hand tools. I would expect a shop to charge around 4-6 hrs to service all four corners.

The rest of your ailments just serve to remind me what a smart decision it was to unload my 2002 after six months of ownership. I may have felt the pain from the loss at the time but you unfortunately have been living with that pain for years I have no idea what the cures are for the other problems. Good Luck
#74427 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/15/2007 12:31 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Brent - 5/15/2007 9:14 AM First, ignore your buddy, he doesn't seem to know anything about the G. His H1 with control arm independant suspension has ball joints. Your vastly superior G500 has solid axles and no ball joints.....

Not quite true.  The G has "ball joints" at the ends of the drag link (ahead of axle, runnig from steering box to right swivel housing) and the tie rod (behind axle connecting L and R swivel housings).  Wear in those joints can cause just the vibration symptoms mentioned. 

The way to check them is as follows:

1- Jack up the right side wheel off the ground (jack on the radius arm below the axle tube so the wheel iis floating free)

2- With key on to free the steering wheel, have someone move the steering wheel from side to side to the point where the left side wheel (on the ground) tries to turn, but moves only a tiny bit.

3- from under the vehicle, inspect each of the 4 rod end joints to see if the rod moves in relation to the knuckle or pitman arm when the steering wheel motion changes direction.

If there's motion in any of the joints, replace them all.  Easiest way is to just buy two new rod assemblies.  But I think some are offerning the threaded joints alone if you want to replace just the joints.  It's more labor work, but cheaper parts.  Either way you'll need a good alignment when you're done.

Checks for wheel bearing and kingpin play are detailed under a recent post.  Search for "king pin" with me as the author.  Premature wear of these items is caused by a build up of effects of bad caster due to lift, bad alignment, and heavy wheels and tires.  See my recent post about maintianing things correctly to avoid other problems. 

This is a textbook case of why I tell people not to just replace the steering damper as a knee-jerk reaction to steering vibrations.  The steering damper doesn't cause or fix vibrations, it just masks them from the driver's perception.  The forces that cause the vibrations are at work on the components downstream of the damper whether you can feel them or not.  Having a good steering damper in place actually does more harm than good as it applies the resistive force for the wheels to work against to stress all the components between the road and the damper, while masking the vibration from the driver.  When the truck is experiencing vibration in the steering, my standard reply is to first REMOVE the steering damper, then address defective or maladjusted components until the vibration is gone, and then refit the damper (or a new one if the vibes have destroyed the old one as they must have if you could feel them in the steering).

I too can't offer any help on the blower or seat switch issues, but at least those aren't safety related as are the steering and brakes.

Good luck!

-Dave G.

#74434 - in reply to #74427
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Author
Posted 5/15/2007 1:35 PM
mb230s

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
500
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Didn't you buy an extended warranty?
#74442 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/15/2007 3:55 PM
KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

yes i have extended warranty, but my dealer sucks So to clame anything on warranty i have to take it about 180 miles if i want it fixed correctly. I know the braks and rotors are not covered and impretty sure ball joint or axle rebuild is not covred either because its "normal" ware and tare..

#74451 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/15/2007 4:04 PM
mb230s

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
500
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

If you would have gotten the correct warranty - the axle would be covered. I just had my tierods and drag link replaced via my extended warranty.

Edited by mb230s 5/15/2007 4:05 PM
#74454 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/15/2007 4:33 PM
MarcO
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Irvington, NY
Vehicle(s): G 500 SWB, Volvo XC90 V8
Posts: 835
500
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

To echo Brent's comments other than brakes and front axle rebuild which is not unexpected (particularly as you really use your G) the electronics will drive you crazy. You need a good dealer to deal with your seat problem. It took 3 separate visits for the dealer I used to get it right. Each time they had twenty parts they replaced and each time the fix lasted weeks. My suggestion is to take to the dealer 180 miles away and let them keep it for a prolonged "spa" treatment where they fix everything under warranty and then drive your wife's Armada for a few weeks. You will really long for the G. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Alternatively, you could just take it out into the back yard and shoot it, putting it out of its electronic misery.

#74464 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/16/2007 10:36 AM
KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Mb 230's your post always make you seem like a jack a..

Im sorry i dont have the "correct" warranty.


Marco, I would love to ditch the electronics... but there is no way around them... also its just not mercedes... Megans armada has had some issues as well as both of the denalies... I think car manifactures are going with the cheapest parts they can find... Also after watching how they put corvettes together i know why gm have electrical problems.. nothing like throwing around a wireing harness while you work.

I think my next car will be a base model... 4x4 and AIR... LoL...
#74576 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/16/2007 1:56 PM
mb230s

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
500
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Didn't mean to come across that way - but did you CHECK? It sounds like you just assumed.

The front axle rebuild is one of those jobs I checked on with the various extended warranty options b/c I knew it would be A) Expensive and B) Eventually required. Before going to these extremes I'd suggest you do some homework. If mine is covered w/ my warranty - yours might be also.
#74598 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/16/2007 2:32 PM
KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

alright,

at lunch i went by friends shop that build and races baja trucks.. they jacked up one side and did the pri bar test, the wheel doent move, other side is the same way... the tires flex but no wheel movement. Then they drove it and listend to the poping and said " yea something isnt right "

Once back to there shop we went to haralds web page and then ClubG forums and pulled up the instruction to replace them looking for more info there reply was
" wow, that some major stuff for a stock production suv, " He then went on to say the H1 they have only has 4 blots that holds in the ball joints.. and they are not pressed in, unbolt they fall out.

as for the warranty i looked in the maual they sent. under whats NOT covered in terms of what we are talking is Wheel balancing, suspension alignments, brake pads, linings, shoes, and rotors, or any maintenance service or part required to be performed or replaced as recommended by the vehicle manufacture's maintenance schedule... So it looks like maybe this will cover it if thats the problem.

Also talked to the dealer thats 180 miles away.. He said they have never done this service because no one drive a G that much around here. He did say that they work on 3 a week though vs my dealers 3 in the hole city.
He also said the seat problem was caused by something needing to be reset.. they go into Dfault setting.. sounds like BS to me...

#74603 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/16/2007 2:55 PM
mb230s

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
500
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Try blowing compressed air into the seat control module. Somebody had good luck fixing these.
#74608 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/16/2007 11:16 PM
ez rhino



Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Vehicle(s): 2010 Rubicon Unlimited; 2009 Mini Clubman JCW
300
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Hey Kerr, just read your post here. Not sure if you want to drive your G down to Charlotte, but there is a mechanic at Beck Imports, the MB dealer here, who is really good with Gwagens. His name is Don Plowman. I use my local non-dealer mechanic for most everything (they are a MB only specialist), they are very good and less expensive, but whenever I have anything really complicated, I take it to Don. He handles almost all of Beck Imports Gwagen work, and he gets quite a bit as there are a lot of G's down here.

I am positive my local mechanic here could do the non-warranty work you describe, and then Don could take care of the rest under your MB extended warranty. If you want to drop it off down here for a "SPA" session, let me know if I can help. I'd be glad to get it where it needs to go while down here and let it sit at the house till you could come pick it up. Just a thought.

Google Maps says Charlotte is about 160 miles from Bristol.
#74677 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/17/2007 10:21 AM
cyntaxx
Veteran




Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Vehicle(s): 2002 G500
Posts: 248
100
RE: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

I had a similar seat issue and my dealership covered it under my extended warranty (aftermarket) no questions asked. They told me post-repair that they replaced the contacts with an "updated version." I could've swore they mentioned something about the replacement units being gold-plated but am not 100% certain.

Good luck!
#74716 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/18/2007 10:35 AM
KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Ez rhino.... i had thought about calling beck anyway... there seems to be more and more of there cars show up in our area... I called the dealer in knoxville on wendsday and they have yet to call me back.. he also said htey have never done ball joint or axle rebuilds.

Also when turning last night on my drive way full lock to the left in reverse you could hear the pop bad. i then turnd the wheels to the left and have about 2" inches of steering wheel "slack /play" and it pops...

#74862 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/18/2007 12:22 PM
mb230s

Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: SWFL
Vehicle(s): G-less for now, vintage MBs, FJ40
500
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Kerr,

Others will chime in - but this sounds like wear in the tierods/draglink and NOT a axle rebuild issue. I'd be very worried about a novice doing the axle rebuild - this repair should be less challenging.

Do you still have your original rims/tires? It might be a good idea to put those back on before taking the truck to MB.



#74872 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/18/2007 1:55 PM
ez rhino



Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Vehicle(s): 2010 Rubicon Unlimited; 2009 Mini Clubman JCW
300
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

Ouch, that doesn't sound good. Well let me know if I can give you a hand.

I'd also say MB230 just made a good point. You might want to consider yanking the ORC springs and putting the stock wheels back on before bringing it in for warranty repairs. I have a feeling the wheels will probably be ok (people roll in there for maintenance on Chromed out 24s and the like all the time so aftermarket wheels probably won't matter) but they might try to claim the springs void the warranty on anything drivetrain related, even though it probably has no effect whatsoever.
#74883 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/18/2007 6:36 PM
ewalberg
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Past: San Francisco. Present: Germany
Vehicle(s): 2000 g500
Posts: 1887
1000
RE: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

kerr, if i remember correctly your rims are somewhere between et12 and et32 depending on whether you're using the lock rings. If your tires aren't ACTUALLY balance well then you are really gonna get vibrations. America's Tire couldn't balance my stock tires on et63 rims to my satisfaction for steering wheel shakes. You really should consider a road force match on one of the hunter machines. It can be hard to do on M/T's so they may not be able to do the force measurement to rotate the tire on the rim, but the machines themselves are inherently better designed for balancing too... make sure they use the shallow taper cups compared to conventional blancers AND use the 5 pin bolt face to hold the rim. If there's any way they can give you some road force data, it may give you some real clues to the problem because especially on this truck even if they are perfectly balanced if they aren't round enough, you're gonna get shaking. I've never done it nor had too, but a slight shaving of the worst tire should help.

Mine rides smoother on my 33's and 17's with et35 than it did on stock 18 rims with et63's with the stock yoko's. Not just a little softer... smoother, less vibration at any speed especially faster speeds. The road force data on the yoko's were all in the +40 lbs. On the BFG's they're (to the surprise of the shop which works on race cars too) they're all in the 5-15 lbs range accept one of the 5 tires which is in the 40's. And when that tire is in the rotation, i can tell.

Double check the steering related drag links they do make a difference.
#74901 - in reply to #74424
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Posted 5/21/2007 10:18 AM
KERR

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
Re: Ball joints, brakes, air, seat's acceleration, question

thanks guys,

As of right now i haven’t done anything else. but i have played with the steering, under full lock to left it pops... you hear in it when stopped, say at drive threw or you drive way. It almost sound like something is hitting something. Just kinda hard to steer and look under the car at the same time I also get the same pop every now and then on the road.
The pop doesent bother me, but this shake is getting old. It feels like really bad warped rotors, but your not on the brake, starts about 30 mph and goes away about 80…

As for wheels and tires, i still have stock wheels but they have 32" good year wranglers on them... the wheels are actually getting stripped right now from where i sank the G about 8 months ago.

I was talking to a friend at a girls inc. fund raiser Saturday night and he mentioned that hunter load balancer. said to call him up and he would swap cars with me. They are a nissan dealer but i guess as long as they can work the machine its worth a try.

My biggest problem right now is time, everyone that knows something about steering is slammed, and my buddy brad is on night shift this month so he cant help me, and my vette is still in the shop from the electrical fire so i dont have any other wheels that run at this moment.
#75132 - in reply to #74424
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