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nugat
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Vehicle(s): 280GE, 290GD, c303
Posts: 876
| two alternators
I heard it is possible to fit two altermators in a G, a guy did it in a wolf (he put in a 12V installation on top of his 24V) . Is it possible to do it in a 280 GE?
Having the 12V, I'd put a 24V installation to power my military "attach it anywhere" Sepson winch, offroad lights, inverter etc etc...
Any comments?
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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: two alternators
It seems to me that you could just get a hotter 12 volt alternator (I've got a Bosch 135 amp in my truck), and then get a step-up transformer to power the 24 v stuff. |
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nugat
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Vehicle(s): 280GE, 290GD, c303
Posts: 876
| RE: two alternators
AFAIK step up transformer 12/24 has huge amperage/power limitations. |
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bbrah
Regular
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Vehicle(s): 460.233 (1980 280GE LWB)
Posts: 68
| RE: two alternators
Yeah, you're right. I checked a couple of websites that sell step-up transformers and the highest rated 24vdc output I saw was 12 amps continious. The Sepson E36P is a great winch, and obviously, you've given this a great deal of thought and have your heart set on it. What about a dual (parallel) battery system to power the winch only? It seems like a lot less of a headache than trying to find (or make) brackets, pulleys, and belts. Alternately, you could just run the winch at 12vdc. |
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nugat
Elite Veteran
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Vehicle(s): 280GE, 290GD, c303
Posts: 876
| RE: two alternators
AS it happens I already have the 24v winch.
Is it possible for a 12v alternator to charge two 12V batteries and have them power both the 12V circuits and 24V circuits at the same time?Even if so, that would reduce my winching to the juice in batteries, no alternator support. Dangerous too (would need a third backup battery). And the cost of buying a 12V winch might be higher than an extra power plant in 24V--if that is possible in a 280GE. Although a nice Rotzler I would not mind...(if I could find one for reasonable money...). So a good 3kW generator on top of the alternator might be a solution...Anybody done it?
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syncro
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: May 2007
Location: Orinda, CA
Vehicle(s): '84 280GE LWB > 300GD, '75 240D
Posts: 477
| Re: two alternators
I don't know that much about G's but doing it with two batteries seems a bit impractical.
It seems to me that for the batteries to both get charged by a 12V alternator, you'll have to keep them in parallel configuration. that means 12V only out of the two batteries.
Then to use the winch, you'd have to rewire one of the batteries to make a series setup. That gets the 24V you're after.
Unless there's some fancy setup for doing that on the fly, it seems like a bigger hassle than adding a 24V alternator. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: two alternators
there is only one solution that would make sense - sell the 24V winch and buy a (used) 12V winch.
A 24V alternator would not delivcer enough juice for the 24V winch - so you would need a strong 24V battery for the winch (or two additional separate 12 V batteries - separate from the main 12V battery).
And even with a 12V winch the regular alternator and regular battery are not sufficient. As mentioned on this board before, a 9000 lb (4 ton) winch draws close to 500 amps and your battery has only 60-80A. A second battery would only give you 120-160A. So, you would need a stronger (200 Amp) alternator when you are really serious about winching.
If you just want to carry it around for the looks. No extras are needed. |
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Bushbenz
Regular
Date registered: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Vehicle(s): 300GD
Posts: 68
| 12 volt system
Following on with this 12 volt system, l run a warn 9000lb winch, and I use it a lot, not as a competitive vehical but I like to go places that other don’t.
The winch is feed from dual batteries with 1500 amp CCA ratting, they are charged with a 120amp alternator, and can handle a 100 amp charge rate, which means even after a lot of winching they charge up very quickly.
Also no load winching is less than 100 amp so the Batts are not stressed in setting the winch.
Finally the batts are set up as an dual system, which parallel when winching, however when using them to run the electric fridge, a 10-15 run will charge the auxiliary battery. which will run the fridge all day.
There is not a lot of room in a G to either fit 2 alternators or 3 batteries, and the advantages of a 24 volt system hardly seem worth the effort.
If you do need to winch all day maybe a PTO would be simpler. |
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: two alternators
Steve,
sounds like a solid set up. Winch manufacturers recommend batteries with about 650 CCA for 4-ton winches.
120 A alternator is a good choice. |
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Merz-Ben
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN 47119
Vehicle(s): 230G, U1200, U1250 DoKa, U1300L, U1500, U1700, 416
Posts: 377
| RE: two alternators
On the two alternators subject, it can be done and has many times, although probably not on a G. The U.S. gov't had a 12 and 24V system on their M880 series dodge pickups from the 70's and on many of their Chevy CUCV's in the 80's. The engine systems ran off of 12V and all of the military radio's and equipment were 24V. I wouldn't recommend running this though, it takes up a lot of room and is a PITA to work on (although you probably wouldn't have 12 and 24V both running inside the cab and under the dash, so it wouldn't be as bad).
The 280GE engine bay isn't really that big for adding things like a heavy duity 24V alternator and extra batteries, but I'd say you could engineer some bracketry if you set your mind to it. The easy way would be to just get a 12V winch, but if you set your mind to it you could make it work... it is just going to take some thinking and designing.
Cheers,
Ben
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: two alternators
Merz-Ben - 5/19/2007 10:47 AM
On the two alternators subject, it can be done and has many times, although probably not on a G. The U.S. gov't had a 12 and 24V system on their M880 series dodge pickups from the 70's and on many of their Chevy CUCV's in the 80's. The engine systems ran off of 12V and all of the military radio's and equipment were 24V. I wouldn't recommend running this though, it takes up a lot of room and is a PITA to work on (although you probably wouldn't have 12 and 24V both running inside the cab and under the dash, so it wouldn't be as bad).
The 280GE engine bay isn't really that big for adding things like a heavy duity 24V alternator and extra batteries, but I'd say you could engineer some bracketry if you set your mind to it. The easy way would be to just get a 12V winch, but if you set your mind to it you could make it work... it is just going to take some thinking and designing.
Cheers,
Ben
W461 G's have dual voltage, too; and there's both sets of power inside. Note the 12 volt socket in the upper level next to the ash tray, and the 24 volt socket in the lower level - just below the A/C temperature control.
 (49782607.P9157029.jpg)
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 49782607.P9157029.jpg (95KB - 1 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| W461 Swiss Worker G
DUTCH - 5/19/2007 10:53 AM
Merz-Ben - 5/19/2007 10:47 AM
On the two alternators subject, it can be done and has many times, although probably not on a G. The U.S. gov't had a 12 and 24V system on their M880 series dodge pickups from the 70's and on many of their Chevy CUCV's in the 80's. The engine systems ran off of 12V and all of the military radio's and equipment were 24V. I wouldn't recommend running this though, it takes up a lot of room and is a PITA to work on (although you probably wouldn't have 12 and 24V both running inside the cab and under the dash, so it wouldn't be as bad).
The 280GE engine bay isn't really that big for adding things like a heavy duity 24V alternator and extra batteries, but I'd say you could engineer some bracketry if you set your mind to it. The easy way would be to just get a 12V winch, but if you set your mind to it you could make it work... it is just going to take some thinking and designing.
Cheers,
Ben
W461 G's have dual voltage, too; and there's both sets of power inside. Note the 12 volt socket in the upper level next to the ash tray, and the 24 volt socket in the lower level - just below the A/C temperature control.
For those who are asking, the photo above is of a W461 Swiss Worker G. More photos can be seen here:
http://www.pbase.com/flydutch/w461_worker |
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Boy G
Expert
Date registered: Feb 2007
Location: Bushveld, South Africa
Vehicle(s): Diesel G's: 617A and 602
Posts: 1683
| Re: two alternators
Thanks Dutch,
That truck looks really nice. Is it a 270? Wonder how the Diff locks and transfer case are accessed.?
How much do they cost? How long till they put the steering on the correct side......... |
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petermerle
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cape Town ( deep south )
Vehicle(s): W460 *1, W123 *2, W124
Posts: 1315
| Re: two alternators
Where is the 12V sourced from in the case of the 24V W461 - is it electronically generated ? or split series dual battery?
Peter |
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