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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| I Need Help!!!
First, I finally found the problem to my electric lock problems. The controller was bad. I was able to fix it by re-soldering one of the loose connections on the board. Now the locks seem to work perfectly, and I now know every aspect of the electronic locking mechanism...
Reference: http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=5427 Now I have a really bad problem. After I put everything back together, the engine will not start. Now during the period while I was trying to figure out where the bad connection was located, I was triggering the lock mechanism every way possible, using both the driver's side mechanism, and also the IR Key. I am curious if I have somehow triggered the Alarm system to shutdown everything. I know that alarm and door lock system are directly connected, but do not know the procedures and how the alarm system truly works (yet).  When I turn the key, everything appears fine. The engine turns over, but does not start. I do not know if it is getting "spark". What can I do? Is there a way that I can reset it? I have not attempted to disconnect the battery yet. can that reset it?
can I disconnect a portion of the alarm to test it? What should I test or try?  |
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CaptnPete
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: I Need Help!!!
Since you soldered some of the electrical connections, make sure all of your fuses are working. I found once that when the stop light fuse was burned the car would not start. Some form of Germanic safety control.
Just a chance |
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AlanMcR
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
| RE: I Need Help!!!
Braingears - 6/1/2007 10:35 PM
... When I turn the key, everything appears fine. The engine turns over, but does not start. I do not know if it is getting "spark". What can I do? Is there a way that I can reset it? I have not attempted to disconnect the battery yet. can that reset it?
can I disconnect a portion of the alarm to test it? What should I test or try?
This is the exact sypmptom that I got when I removed the RFID ring that surrounds the igntion lock. This ring is the antenna for the drive authorization system. Without the correct response from the key's chip, the engine cranks just fine, but you get no fuel (or in your case, possibly no spark). I'd trace the black wire back from this ring to it's module. You may very well find that it got pulled out or kinked somewhere along the way.
Edited by AlanMcR 6/2/2007 12:20 PM
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: I Need Help!!!
If the starter is cranking it's probably not the alrm related... I beleive the alarm cuts the ignition first... I hope you didn't short something in the circuit board when soldering...
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Phil
Veteran
Date registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, Massachusetts
Vehicle(s): 1984 280GE
Posts: 218
| RE: I Need Help!!!
I have been in a similar position for a variety of reasons RE the alarm. You are on the right track: Find where your alarm system connects to your battery (mine was an aftermarket add-on and very conspicuous), after disconnecting from the battery, you should start right up. If not, on to the next check- but I would leave the alarm disconnected. This way, in a worse-case scenario, you will get to ground zero (everything disconnected) and reconnect from there on step at a time.
Good luck. |
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fourbyfourclub
Extreme Veteran
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
Vehicle(s): 300G
Posts: 302
| RE: I Need Help!!!
Chuck,
What exactly the manufactured date of your G, I need month and year,
For example 09/1996
Call me and I will try to guide you with troubleshooting.
Vlad
201 589 4778
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| RE: I Need Help!!!
I have found the problem.
It's not the alarm system, and did not have anything to do with the solder. It was environmental! The K40 Relay Module must be replaced!
Part # A 210 540 02 72
This module is responsible for:
Fuel Pump (Plug B - Whose copper Relay arm is not looking good) ***Pictures Shown***
Engine Circuit 87 (Plug E - Whose Relay had a missing contact tab from the copper relay arm)
FAN Horn Relay
Diff Locks Relay
AIR Pump Relay (40 Amp Fused)
 (Relay Module.jpg)
 (Board Sol 5.jpg)
 (Sol 5.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 Relay Module.jpg (92KB - 2 downloads)
Board Sol 5.jpg (114KB - 2 downloads)
Sol 5.jpg (113KB - 2 downloads)
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DUTCH
Administrator Doppelgänger
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, GA, Atlanta
Vehicle(s): 2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI,2018 Sprinter
Posts: 9963
| RE: I Need Help!!!
Braingears - 6/3/2007 3:29 PM I have found the problem.
It's not the alarm system, and did not have anything to do with the solder. It was environmental! The K40 Relay Module must be replaced!
Part # A 210 540 02 72
This module is responsible for:
Fuel Pump (Plug B - Whose copper Relay arm is not looking good) ***Pictures Shown***
Engine Circuit 87 (Plug E - Whose Relay had a missing contact tab from the copper relay arm)
FAN Horn Relay
Diff Locks Relay
AIR Pump Relay (40 Amp Fused) Europa used to keep these in stock, as their failure was quite common. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: I Need Help!!!
Back to the "Environmental" story...
I was working on the lock system until it got dark outside. I was successful in finding the bad connection and re-soldering it in the Door Lock Module. Everything was working properly (as far as I could tell). Since it was getting pretty late, I figured I would finish everything the following day. I picked up all of my tools, put everything into the cab of the truck. Locked the doors, shut the hood, and went inside.
The following day, I replaced the panel that covers the computers and relay modules (in the engine compartment). Closed the flaps on the fuse panel (located on the passenger side foot area of the truck). I hopped into the truck, and the engine would not start.
The entire following day, it was raining outside. I did not think anything of it. The truck was closed up, all of the doors shut, and the hoods was fastened shut. To assume = ASS U & ME.
On the outside hood, there is an Air Vent that allows air to reach the A/C & Heating system for the cab of the truck. The hood allows the water that falls into this vent to become dispersed along the lip (along the hinges) of the hood. On the inside of the hood, there are holes near the hinges. It just happens that these holes allow the rain water to weep over the sealed box that contains all of the computers and relays for the truck located on the passenger side firewall.
The night before, I simply put all of my tools and the Sealed Box Cover inside of the truck. The circuits were left uncovered from the closed hood.
Water found it's way though the hood's channel, to a weep hole that dripped directly over this K40 Relay Unit (shown in the pictures above). When I inspected it more closely, I found that the entire module was FILLED with dirty water! I removed the module, took it apart, and found that it was a series of relays. The board was very simple in design and did not contain any digital circuits. I Spent 30-45 minutes cleaning it out with QD Electrical contact cleaner (yea it was that dirty inside), then coating it further with Corrosion Block made for electrical circuits (which I have used extensively in the marine environment).
I replaced the module and tried again. The engine would turn over, but it would not start. When there was more light outside, I then re-opened the Relay Module and found the bad connections in the actual relay parts...
I then opened WIS & EPC to figure out what this module's function was. Once I found out that it controlled the Fuel Pump, everything started to make sense (especially after reading your posts listed above).
Tomorrow I will be ordering a new relay module and hoping that nothing else is damaged... |
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| RE: I Need Help!!!
did you try switching the apparent bad relay with another one on the board to test or are they all different?... |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: I Need Help!!!
Uh... Yea... Did you see the pictures listed above? They are pretty well soldered in. Besides, why sacrifice one system for another. I do not want to accidently cause damage to a seperate componet of the truck when I can replace the relay module that I already know is bad. |
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jcaine
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: I Need Help!!!
Braingears - 6/4/2007 12:27 AM
Uh... Yea... Did you see the pictures listed above? They are pretty well soldered in. Besides, why sacrifice one system for another. I do not want to accidently cause damage to a seperate componet of the truck when I can replace the relay module that I already know is bad.
sorry, just trying to help... whatever. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: I Need Help!!!
jcaine - 6/4/2007 4:31 AM Braingears - 6/4/2007 12:27 AM Uh... Yea... Did you see the pictures listed above? They are pretty well soldered in. Besides, why sacrifice one system for another. I do not want to accidently cause damage to a seperate componet of the truck when I can replace the relay module that I already know is bad. sorry, just trying to help... whatever. I did not mean to be rude or anything. That relay is complex circuit that I would rather replace than have it damage more circuits on this engine. The relay costs less than $120. To replace the engine wiring harness alone can easily cost $800+ This is one of the reasons I really like the older diesel engines. They did not require a fraction of the electrical componets to run. |
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CaptnPete
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: I Need Help!!!
When you get your relay installed and you are getting ready to start the truck, listen for a slight buzzing noise from the fuel tank area when turning the key, indicating that the fuel pump and its relay are working. If not check the relay and/or pump. This info maybe old hat, but sometimes it is the simple things that provide a solution.
Pete |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: I Need Help!!!
CaptnPete - 6/4/2007 10:24 AM When you get your relay installed and you are getting ready to start the truck, listen for a slight buzzing noise from the fuel tank area when turning the key, indicating that the fuel pump and its relay are working. If not check the relay and/or pump. This info maybe old hat, but sometimes it is the simple things that provide a solution. Pete You know, I have never been able to hear this fuel pump before. I guess my truck is well insulated. |
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Fernando BR
Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Vehicle(s): G500/05 300GE/91 300GD/80
| Re: I Need Help!!!
I always listen to it ( bizzzzz) when the truck is cold.For me it was the cold valve of the KE working. I had starts problems too : Truck do not starts when it was hot and i stop for a while - a stop for gas for example , but not always , eventualy. The simptoms , screw works , but there is no gas to start - after 5 minutes Brummm....all works and engine was on!
My mechanic , MB dealer , they never found nothing in the star and the problem never happened with them. One day it hapenned with me and my wife 300 miles from my home.
I changed everything- Ke pressure regulator - engine pump- fuel filter , all fuel hoses - and the ignition coil (may be it was loosing energy when hot), the truck has 16 years , must parts too! After that - 3 months ago - i didnt have more problems. The real issue i realy dont know.
Edited by boewick 6/4/2007 11:34 AM
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CaptnPete
Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
| Re: I Need Help!!!
When the fuel pump relay is on its last leg it sometimes dies a slow death. It will work for perhaps an hour or more and then leave you without fuel. After that it may start up again and work for a day or so. Then suddenly its quits again. Time to either carry a spare or replace it. Been there on an 560SL. |
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Braingears
Expert
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Vehicle(s): G320 & ML320
Posts: 1450
| Re: I Need Help!!!
I picked up the new relay today. I immediatly installed the new relay, hopped in, and everything started right up.
Everything seems to up-and-running again!
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4x4abc
Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: La Paz, Baja California, Mexico
Vehicle(s): 02 G500
| Re: I Need Help!!!
good trouble shooting! |
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