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280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP
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Posted 7/2/2007 11:27 AM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

DesertStar - .....What is the best way to "tap" into the lighting system for the side markers ?....let me guess, run wires to the unused terminal 5 of my light switch?

Dave G, does the headlight relay upgrade have a provision for side marker connections ? Mike

No, the headlight relay setup only handles the headlamps.  If you wanted to run the marker lights on a relay, you'd have to add a different one.  But, since the marker light bulbs are only 5w each, even if there's a city light in the headlamp, front and rear side markers, and tail light, that's only 20 watts per side, or 40 watts total, compared to 60 watts each headlight bulb (120W total) on high beam.  So the side markers probably don't need a relay.  But they SHOULD be properly wired.  I think it's okay for the front side marker to come off the headlamp city light, and for the rear side marker to come off the rear park light wire for the given side.  You'll probably have fun trying to solder those wires up.  Lots of times they're corroded pretty badly.  But keep after it with a little 600 grit sandpaper (spread the strands of the wire out and draw the "fan" between two sheets of sandpaper) and you should be abel to get the wires to "tin" (solder to wet to them).  The cut ground wire there is probably coming from the side marker and they've left the marker lamp to ground through it's housing being screwed to the body.  Just a guess.

Keep after it!

-Dave G.

#81018 - in reply to #80978
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Author
Posted 7/2/2007 11:57 AM
fernweh



Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Calabasas, CA - Centenario, BCS - Luebeck, Germany
Vehicle(s): Few Mercedes-Benz, a Toyota Amphibious and a Vespa
2000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

hipine - 7/2/2007 8:27 AM

You'll probably have fun trying to solder those wires up. Lots of times they're corroded pretty badly. But keep after it with a little 600 grit sandpaper (spread the strands of the wire out and draw the "fan" between two sheets of sandpaper) and you should be abel to get the wires to "tin" (solder to wet to them). The cut ground wire there is probably coming from the side marker and they've left the marker lamp to ground through it's housing being screwed to the body. Just a guess.

Keep after it!

-Dave G.



A soldered wire connection might be the best for conductivity, but in aviation and newer car manufacturing it's a no-no
The solder joint make the pliable stranded wire at the connection point extreme rigid and it might brake the wire strands next to it, due to vibration and other dynamic forces.
As we all know some of us here are always flying high or that (diesel) engine is not running really smooth , so to look at the aviation mechanics maybe not such a bad thing - using nice double barreled crimp connectors (not just a single split barrel) with the correct crimping tool.......

Mike, a good clean ground connection does go a long way, but do not forget to look at the 12+ side as well. A bad loose connection, a faulty crimp or an overheated wire wire can arc and carbonize the connection surfaces, resulting in a higher resistant connection - more arcing and so on. It Happened to me with an amp meter in the dash, all kinds of weird thing were going on until I noticed, I was getting only 7V to all users. Traced the wiring back to the very bad amp meter connecting - This was on the Chrysler part of Daimler-Chrysler just to relax you......


Karl
#81022 - in reply to #81018
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Author
Posted 7/2/2007 2:11 PM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

Dave, ironically the connections in the headlight bucket are good and shiny...even with the scotch-lok used.

My soldering leaves ALOT to be desired. I have spent 45 minutes to solder two wires and end up crimping them as I dont have a third hand. How you solder things is beyond me...I am so uncoordinated in this department.

I see Karl's post (thanks)....is crimping wires REALLY that bad ?

Mike
#81037 - in reply to #80895
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Author
Posted 7/2/2007 5:40 PM
hipine



Date registered: Jul 2006
Location: US, CO, Bailey
Vehicle(s): 460 1980 280GE w. 617A
5000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

Crimping is fine if it's done right.  Trouble is most generic crimping tools don't do it right.  Most are equivalent to "smash it with a pliers" and these will loosen up over time, let corrosion build inside between wires and connector, etc.

I have one like this:

http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/601530_front500.jpg

And when using good quality tinned copper connectors, oriented with the split side into the female jaw, I've never had a problem with any of them coming loose.

Stay away from this kind:

http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/266668_front500.jpg

that just pinch the connector flat.

There's an even better kind that ratchet closed so that you MUST complete the crimp before the jaws will open.  These are required for mil spec crimps, but are very specific for connector type and wire gauge, and a little impractical for the shardetree guy.  Like I said, I use some like the ones in the first reference to crimp terminations (not wire to wire if I can help it) and I've not had  problem with those crimps yet.

The observatoin Karl made is a good one, that a solder joint stiffens the wire.  But then, so does the crimp, and the barrel of the crimp adds more mass to the assembly than the solder does.  The bottom line is that it's a secondary feature of the heat shrink tubing that it acts as a strain relief at the interface where the wire compliance changes, whether that be at the end of the crimp connector, or at the point the solder joint stops.  So save some money when you buy your crimp sleeves.  Buy the un-insulated kind and slip the adhesive lined heat shrink over them to get the dual purpose role of insulation plus strain relief.

If you get into the WeatherPac stuff you'll see how those terminals are crimped 2x.  Once to the bare wire, and then a little upstream, to the insulated portion of the wire, and then upstream of THAT they go through the moisture barrier bushing.  A real nice design.

Sorry, I'm rambling.....

-Dave G.

#81056 - in reply to #81037
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Author
Posted 7/3/2007 5:44 AM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

Thanks Dave and Karl for the lesson, it really helps. I went down to Summit Racing and picked up a ratchet crimper,weatherpack kit weatherpack crimper, headlight relay harness, aux fan relay harness as well as a few other things. I look forward to using my new tools this Independence Day.
My plan of attack is as follows:
1. Install headlamp relay harness and cleanup tapped in wires for side markers.
2. Test gauges for flickering when headlamps turned on.
3. If gauges still flicker continue with Weatherpack connections to replace main harness connectors.
4. Test gauges for flickering when headlamps turned on.
5. If gauges still flicker, take deep breath and prepare to live with the temp gauge reading a little hotter at night with
headlamps on and enjoy the rest of the afternoon wiring up the remote auxilliary fan swtich and putting the
Gwagen back together.

A followup will be do later this week....with my fingers crossed.

Mike

#81103 - in reply to #80895
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Posted 7/5/2007 5:37 AM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

For those following this saga, I installed the headlamp relay upgrade today. What a job that was fitting the wires into the headlamp buckets and refitting the wire rubber grommets to the buckets. The procedure was easy, on paper, but in the typical "G-fashion" you have to remove numerous components in order to get to what you need etc etc etc. In addition, it takes more time to resize the wiring, route and make it look clean and tidy. Needless to say it took most of the day, but I feel better that my headlamp and marker light connections are in order.

On the negative side, this did not solve my flickering gauges. Next and last step, is upgrading the main wire harness connections with Weatherpacks.

Mike
#81312 - in reply to #80895
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Posted 7/8/2007 6:57 PM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: 280GE Headlamp switch wiring terminals...HELP

Well, to close this thread, I have finished my wiring harness upgrade and remote auxiliary fan switch install. My hope was this would stop any flickering in my gauges...it did not.
On a positive note, I have piece of mind, as far as my main underhood and underdash wiring goes, knowing all connections are in order and redoing all splice jobs by other people that have had their hands on and in my G. I have also learned a heck of a lot about wiring, relays and how to solder correctly. All is not lost.

I will now live with the fact that my temperature gauge will read a little hotter at night with the lights on...the G gods have won this battle for now.

Mike
#81577 - in reply to #80895
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