Welcome Guest. ( logon | register )   
FAQ Member List Albums Today's Posts Search

PointedThree :  Vans, Trucks, SUVs and Other Forums : G-Class : warm up compensator for M110 engine

Page 1 of 7 <12.053.054.055.05 ... >
warm up compensator for M110 engine
Topic Tools Message Format
Author
Posted 8/4/2007 6:22 PM
shakir
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: London , UK
Vehicle(s): 1986 280 GEL manual, lpg.1991 300GEL AUTO
Posts: 404
300
warm up compensator for M110 engine

Does anyone know how to check if the warm up compensator is working or not? it is off the vehicle at the moment.
#84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/4/2007 9:06 PM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

Per a couple of different references (Volvo and Bosch manuals), there are a couple of electrical checks you can do

Measure the resistance across the two terminals on the regulator:
- it should not be open
- one type 10-20 ohms probably pre 1983/1984
- another type 11.7-12.9ohms above 17C and below 12C 33.3-36.7ohms

The other electrical check is for 12volts decreasing over a couple of minutes coming from the female connector that connects into the regulator.

The purpose of that electrical function is to warm up the compensator on the inside to trick it into not not enriching the mixture for more than a couple of minutes.

Other than that, my manuals say it needs to be on the truck with a functioning fuel pump, all of the air purged and a CIS fuel pressure gauge setup.

What were the symptoms?



Edited by J.R. 8/4/2007 9:16 PM
#84732 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/5/2007 1:29 AM
nugat
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Jan 2007
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Vehicle(s): 280GE, 290GD, c303
Posts: 876
500
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

is this same as "choke"?
#84745 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/5/2007 3:30 AM
shakir
Extreme Veteran




Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: London , UK
Vehicle(s): 1986 280 GEL manual, lpg.1991 300GEL AUTO
Posts: 404
300
Re: warm up compensator for M110 engine

cold start very rough until engine is warm. I have new fuel pump already so down to cold start valve or the compensator,
i have cheched the terminals on the car that goes on the cols start valve there is no electricity at all, may be both faulty
#84748 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/5/2007 5:25 AM
Wout
Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Belgium
Vehicle(s): Mercedes 280GE 1979/230G 1980/ C220CDI/A170CDI/
Posts: 145
100
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

Good day to all.
For just a couple of days I read a topic on the internet about the Bosch K Jetronic
injection. There was a very interesting link.
For those who are interested, the link is:

http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm

wkr
Wout
#84749 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/5/2007 7:28 AM
J.R.
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Vehicle(s): 00 G500, 09 911 4S, 11 Cayenne S, 86 280GE (sold)
Posts: 828
500
Re: warm up compensator for M110 engine

Wout's website is almost verbatim from the Bosch technical manual. A very good general source.

There is a thermal time switch (resistance check) that needs to be checked out that is in line before the cold start injector. Also, see if your getting voltage IN. If not, you need to trace it back. I can't recall if there is an initial charge provided by the cold start before cranking or not. Most definitely there during cranking.
#84752 - in reply to #84748
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 8/5/2007 8:01 AM
cootofrito

Date registered: Dec 1899
Location:
Vehicle(s):
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

They best way to test this is with a fuel pressure gauge set, but you can see if it has voltage going to it. If it does you probably have a bad warm up reg. Sometimes they get tired and loose their tension inside you can "adjust" this pressure with a small punch and hammer. If it is original than a new one is the way to go. If you need one let me know


Good Luck,
Steve
P.S. WITH ALL OLDER M-Bs, BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT ANY DIAGNOSIS
CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN THE FUSE BOX AND ALWAYS REPLACE ALUMINUM
FUSES WITH BRASS ONES AS THEY WILL BURN AT THE ENDS AND YOU
WILL NEVER KNOW UNTIL YOU HAVE ALREADY SPENT $$$$ ON A NEW PART!
#84755 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/20/2007 8:37 PM
bram_r
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

hi guys,

Just an additional question to the warm up compensator and it's connections. Please also see following attachments (pics and EPC screenprints).
I've been checking out the K-Jetronic fuel system of my 1984 280GE, testing the components and figuring out how it all works.
Since none of the EPC diagrams matched exactly my fuel system, I've been looking for some info or feedback to know if all my connections have been connected properly. Also, some additional info on some components may be useful.

Thanks anyway for your feedback.

Bram
The Netherlands


components:
A: manifold (which houses idle adjustment screw and cold start injector)
B: auxiliary air valve (zusatzluftschieber)
C: don't what this is or doing (schubumluftventil, MB. pn. 000 094 08 65)
D: don't know it's exact function, probably safety valve, only gives fuel (pressure) to warm up regulator when vacuum signal is present? (membrane, MB. pn. 000 078 05 92)
E: warm up regulator

connections:
1: inlet to manifold 'A', connects before throttle valve on inlet manifold (but after sensor plate/air metering plate, 'stauscheibe', see also EPC print)
2: to end of inlet manifold, connects to inlet runners of every cilinder
3: vacuum connection 1 of warm up regulator, to bottom of inlet manifold (after throttle valve)
4: vacuum connection 2 of warm up regulator, connects in front of auxiliary air valve (zusatzluftschieber)
5: regulating fuel pressure connection (steuerdruck) to fuel distributor

My exact questions are the following:
- are my air connections to warm up regulator connected as they should? On none of the EPC prints, the connections exactly match as on my G. Either they are connected after auxiliary air valve, instead of in front as I have, or connection 3 is attached to position 4.
- what is component C doing? Only shows on EPC print with a different inlet manifold. When testing this Pierburg component, it opens when vacuum signal is provided. Strange thing however, there sits a rubber plug in front of membrane, which prevents the membrane opening so connection from inlet to outlet can be made (see also picture). So even with 0,5 bar vacuum, valve keeps closed. Only when rubber plug is removed, valve operates smoothly, no vacuum closed, with vacuum open.

hope that you 280GE guys have the same set-up and can provide some input. thanks again.




Edited by bram_r 9/20/2007 9:02 PM




(pic1.jpg)



(pic2.jpg)



(pic3.jpg)



(pic4.jpg)



(pic5.jpg)



(pic6.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments pic1.jpg (66KB - 29 downloads)
Attachments pic2.jpg (69KB - 21 downloads)
Attachments pic3.jpg (45KB - 21 downloads)
Attachments pic4.jpg (154KB - 22 downloads)
Attachments pic5.jpg (54KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments pic6.jpg (49KB - 22 downloads)
#89440 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/20/2007 8:46 PM
charon_sin
Member


Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle(s): 1985 280GE SWB, 1992 300E, 2001 Isuzu VehiCross
Posts: 27
25
Re: warm up compensator for M110 engine

If you need a new regulator replace it with this http://www.unwiredtools.com/utcis.html
#89441 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/20/2007 9:15 PM
bram_r
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000
Re: warm up compensator for M110 engine

hi Charon-sin,

thanks for the link.
If my warm up regulator turns out faulty, I will definately consider the UT unit (or upgrade anyway). Which one do they recommend for the 230 /280GE; the UTCIS or UTCIS-A?

[edit]...just looked up some Mercedes pricing on original warm up regulators, completely ridiculous (again), E 648,- to E 820,- depending on what version you need...you could buy a decent Suzuki Samurai for that kind of money!
Hopefully the UT ones have some more competitive pricing...

Edited by bram_r 9/20/2007 9:37 PM
#89449 - in reply to #89441
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/22/2007 8:08 PM
elevatorbernie
Expert




Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
1000
Re: warm up compensator for M110 engine

charon_sin - 9/20/2007 5:46 PM

If you need a new regulator replace it with this http://www.unwiredtools.com/utcis.html
Have you tried it? I want one, where did you buy it?
#89670 - in reply to #89441
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/23/2007 6:28 AM
bram_r
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

for some guidance on warm up regulator disassembly, go to http://www.landsharkoz.com/images/pdf/wurfix.pdf

reading this article also makes me believe the connections on my regulator are incorrect, i.e. the connection on the top (nr. 4 on my pics) should lead to inlet manifold (after throttle valve) to provide for direct vacuum signal (and with high vacuum, increase the signal pressure and lean out the mixture), where mine is connected to air inlet, in front of throttle valve.

The connection on the side (nr. 3) should lead to atmospheric pressure (where mine is connected to inlet manifold). This connection should also provide for some wide open throttle enrichment. A little vacuum will be present on full throttle in the air inlet (after air filter, before throttle valve), so where connection nr. 4 on my pics leads to (in front of aux. air valve), this can be the correct position for the connection on the side (nr. 3).

I will disassembly this regulator today, but based on EPC pics and this article makes me think my connections 3 and 4 are swapped. Maybe someone can confirm this by checking connections on their 280GE (or 230GE for that matter). A little hard to visibly check, but by feeling you should be able to know what connection is going where.

greetings,

Bram
#89706 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/23/2007 5:37 PM
elevatorbernie
Expert




Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

bram_r - 9/23/2007 3:28 AM
I will disassembly this regulator today, but based on EPC pics and this article makes me think my connections 3 and 4 are swapped. Maybe someone can confirm this by checking connections on their 280GE (or 230GE for that matter). A little hard to visibly check, but by feeling you should be able to know what connection is going where.

greetings,

Bram
Here's a pic of mine, the brass nipple on the right side is the vent (no hose on mine though there should be) and the vacuum hook up is on the front beside the electricial connector. However, I must warn you there are many different WUC's, your maybe different. I have really good book called "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management" by Charles O. Probst. He has four different configurations pictured. Some have the vacuum on the front like mine, and some the front is the vent and left side nipple is the vacuum (when facing the fuel connectors, like yours looks). I think your #3 and #4 might be reversed. Also there are some that have no vacuum hook up, (without full load enrichment) and no vent hose (no altitude compensation) I had trouble last year when a mechanic replaced mine with the cheaper unit....no vacuum hook up and left my vacuum hose just hanging in the wind. He changed it after I gave him a blast. However I think mine is still not the factory one, though it works. Bern. Another good book on the subject is the Bosch K-Jetronic technical instruction manual. I bought both these books from Amazon.com.

Edited by elevatorbernie 9/23/2007 5:47 PM




(wuc 001 (Small).jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments wuc 001 (Small).jpg (46KB - 19 downloads)
#89748 - in reply to #89706
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/23/2007 9:55 PM
bram_r
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

Hi Bern,

thanks for the info and of course the books you listed. I already had "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection", Motorbooks Workshop by B. Watson. A nice book about the basics but not too much info on all connections and different types of components as used by MB. Will order the books you recommended.

Today I disassembled the warm up regulator (WUR) and found everything to be in good order. The wire mesh screens in the inlet and inlet tube were not contaminated, all seals and other components not damaged or worn. So everything is back on the car and will continue to do some testing tomorrow. Quite curious if I now will be getting some 'normal' regulating pressures (and by that, dramatically increase my mileage!) I was now continious driving in cold start mode I guess.

Anyway, on following EPC pics, in green, the connections as they now are mounted. The schematic of this valve also attached pretty close resambles reality, where the top connection is the connection to the vacuum chamber and the side inlet is the atmospheric connection

Also a question on your picture Bern, where does connection X and Y go? In my top EPC print, I've drawn to where the connection on the top of the WUR goes (to bottom of inlet manifold that is). Is this hose 'Y' on your pic and does it somewhere connects to 'X'?
And about the side (atmospheric) connection; is this only for altitude compensation or as stated in the link I mentioned in earlier reply above (http://www.landsharkoz.com/images/pdf/wurfix.pdf), also provides some kind of wide open throttle enrichment, lowering the spring pressure on lower chamber and thus lowering the signal pressure / richening mixture by slight vacuum?
By the way, your side connection comes out the right side where mine is coming out left side. I think it is the same valve, but there is a boss on both sides of lower part of this valve. Just a matter of where you tap in the tube.

thanks again, will follow up on this when the G is up and running again and some test results are made.

greetings,

Bram



(pic4E.JPG)



(pic5E.JPG)



(warm up regulator_schema2.jpg)



(wuc 001 (Small)E.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments pic4E.JPG (109KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments pic5E.JPG (38KB - 16 downloads)
Attachments warm up regulator_schema2.jpg (51KB - 19 downloads)
Attachments wuc 001 (Small)E.jpg (55KB - 18 downloads)
#89763 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/24/2007 12:32 AM
DesertStar
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Vehicle(s): 85-280GE/95-G320/08-G500
Posts: 2156
2000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

Bram-R
FWIW my 85 280ge WUC is configured just as yours is. A bit different then Elevatorbernie as his has the extra brass fitting .His is also over 5 years newer than ours so you really cant compare as there were several different types of units as he said.
I do thank you for the detailed photos, they are very helpful as I too am suffering from recent poor economy after changing my control pressure regulator which you show as D. I used your photos to verify that the mechanic replaced all vacuum lines as they should be...as we know mechanics and vacuum line do not mix.
From my understanding part D supposedly has some aneroid chamber for altitude compensation.

Mike
#89768 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/24/2007 4:38 AM
elevatorbernie
Expert




Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

bram_r - 9/23/2007 6:54 PM
By the way, your side connection comes out the right side where mine is coming out left side. I think it is the same valve, but there is a boss on both sides of lower part of this valve. Just a matter of where you tap in the tube.

Bram
You might be right about the side tubes. All I know is my book shows a picture of your WUR and it labels the left side port as VACUUM. So if the book is right...your #3 and #4 hoses should be reversed. However if that's the case and the tubes right or left are the same as you claim...then mine is hooked up wrong too according to the picture in my book, as I have the vacuum hooked on the top port (X). I wish I had a scanner so I could show you the picture from my book, though I'm starting to think the book picture might be wrong. I have read both books many times...they both discribe the bottom as for atmospheric/ altitude compensation...vented to air cleaner or just vented to the outside air, as mine is (no hose) and how your is in your picture (hose #3). However your fig 30 picture shows the bottom as Vacuum also..like my book. Maybe my WUR is hooked up wrong, but my G acellerates well. Tommrow I will try swapping the vaccum hose to see what happens. I sure would like to get one of those electronic units, the one with the map sensor would be more accurate then a bi-metal/ heater element controlling the warm up.

Edited by elevatorbernie 9/24/2007 5:00 AM




(wuc 001 (Small).jpg)



(WUR.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments wuc 001 (Small).jpg (46KB - 6 downloads)
Attachments WUR.jpg (45KB - 12 downloads)
#89776 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/24/2007 6:26 AM
bram_r
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

Hi DesertStar, Bernie,

thanks for the replies, always interesting to discover 'the little differences' and trying to argue if a book is really right or not.

I'm pretty sure that the top connection of the WUR should lead to a (high) vacuum connection in the inlet manifold. As can be seen in one of my green coloured EPC prints, my WUR top connection (now) leads to the bottom of the inlet manifold.
Here you'd have the same vacuum signal as is going to the brake assist (vacuum connection on the inner fender side of the inlet manifold).
In idle or cruising/downhill situations there would be a high vacuum since the throttle valve is almost closed. Then, with also vacuum in the top chamber of the WUR (and atmospheric pressure in lower chamber), the regulating/signal pressure will increase and the mixture will lean out (as it should). In the official MB G-manual there is even a chart how much your regulating/signal pressure should be at what vacuum. I can post it here so you can verify, if you want to.

So Bernie's connection 'X' should be a vacuum connection. My question however is where does it get its vacuum signal from, in front of, or after the throttle valve. If connected in front of the throttle valve, you'd be having your air inlet pressure (only your pressure drop over your air filter and maybe your K-Jetronic air meter disc), which will only be a slight vacuum in high rpm situations. Maybe you can check again where your top 'x' connection is going to?

The side inlet is something to have some thoughts about.
Normally, you'd like a carb jet size to be smaller with altitude increase, so with the thinner air, you'd still be having the same mixture as on sea level. So, as also with our MB WUR, we would like to see a leaner mixture with altitude increase. The funny thing is if you look at fig. 30; if the lower chamber (connected to atmospheric pressure) is having a lower atmospheric pressure, the spring force of inner spring will be reduced and so reduce the signal/regulating pressure and thus richening the mixture.
This can't be the way Robert Bosch designed this thing and I'm pretty sure he's a bit ahead of my knowledge level as it comes to fuel injection.

When connecting this side inlet somewhere to your air inlet somewhere (where a little vacuum is created in wide open throttle situations) you'd be having your WOT enrichment following the same route as stated above (low signal pressure => rich mixture). But now we do get the enrichment, which is what we want at wide open throttle.

However, this whole WUR thing is a constant balance between inlet manifold pressure on the top and some pressure in the bottom. In a wide open throttle situation, your inlet manifold vacuum will also be pretty low and I'm also not exactly sure how much inlet manifold pressure/vacuum will be different in high altitude situations, so my thoughts above leaving the top chamber vacuum constant and only the bottom chamber pressure altering in not completely right I guess. Also, how much vacuum is present at what part of the air inlet is also something I'm not a full 100% on.

But anyway, hopefully the EPC prints are correct and will help my G start easier and give better mileage since it is now in a constant max. injection pressure situation, running very rich. And well, if it works, it works, and with fuel prices of gas being over E 1,42 per liter (with 1 USD being E 0,71 and 1 gallon being 3,78 liter, we're paying approx. 7,5 USD / Gallon) you will know the need why I want to get this thing sorted!
Tonight I'll be doing my testing, see what it brings.

Bram
#89778 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/24/2007 8:38 PM
bram_r
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2007
Location: the Netherlands
Vehicle(s): 1984 MB 280GE, 1982 MB 300GD, 1986 Subaru XT 4WD
Posts: 1659
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

so, another day reading my manuals and doing some testing, gained some knowledge in the process

Combining the test procedures and test data in the MB G-manual and in "how to tune and modify Bosch fuel injection" - by Ben Watson, I think the following test procedure is pretty good and quick.
Again, the connections on the warm up regulator (WUR) as earlier discussed are correct. Connect the top connection to the inlet manifold (to provide vacuum signal), the side connection can be connected to atmosphere or somewhere in the air inlet (but before throttle valve!).

Then connect a 0-100 psi pressure gauge with an open/close valve between center of fuel distributor and WUR. See also attachment. Also remove the fuel pump relais and have a jumper wire ready to bridge relais terminals 87 and 30. Remove electrical connecter on WUR as well.

Then perform following tests (best to do with if your car has been off for a while so that engine will be at ambient temperature).

1. leave engine off, make sure open/close valve is in open position and bridge terminal 87 and 30 to get the fuel pump running. Depending on the ambient temperature the bi-metal strip in the WUR will be controlling the cold control pressure.
You should be measuring about 14 psi at 50 F or 30 psi at 100 F. This is your cold control pressure.

2. leave engine off, close valve after pressure gauge and bridge fuel pump relais again. With the valve now closed, you'll be measuring the system pressure (or the relief pressure, fuel pump is pumping fuel to tank over the relief).
You should be measuring 72 - 81 psi. This is your system pressure.

3. connect fuel pump relais and WUR electrical connection. Put the shut off valve after pressure gauge to the open position and start engine. Directly after starting you should be seeing on your pressure gauge again your cold control pressure. With temperature rising also the control pressure should be rising. The WUR needs about 3- 5 minutes to warm up. After this warm up period, the signal pressure should have risen to about 49 - 55 psi. This is your warm control pressure. When also putting a gauge on a T in the vacuum connection, a vacuum of about 6 psi (400 mbar) should be present with a control pressure of 49 - 55 psi.

4. with engine running and shut off valve still open we can check the wide open throttle enrichment (here it comes Bernie!). Pull vacuum connection from the WUR and watch control pressure change. With disappearing of vacuum signal, the control pressure should drop to 40 - 46 psi. I've seen pictures of other WUR's with a dedicated wide open throttle enrichment connection, but in the MB manual, this drop of vacuum when throttle valve fully opens also leads to enrichment of the signal. For the side connection I can indeed not think of another function than to compensate for altitude / ambient pressure, however I still haven't figured out that a lower pressure in the lower chamber will increase control pressure and thus lean out the mixture (as it should). Somebody here with a hotline to Bosch?

5. with valve still open, put vacuum connection back on WUR, let control pressure stabilize and then shut engine off. The control pressure will drop to the residual or rest pressure (which is I think the same pressure as pulling of the vacuum connection with engine running). This rest pressure may not drop below 41 psi in 20 minutes. If pressure drops very rapid, investigate the check valve at fuel pump outlet. By the way, the residual pressure is exactly that high, that injector pressure remains under injector-open-pressure. If your rest pressure drops to quick, you'll be having difficulty when starting your hot G.

All my tests went very well and got the correct pressures, only my warm control pressure was on the low side, but I want first to check some causes before jumping the conclusions. Will post my readings probably tomorrow. Also, since my exhaust is still pretty sooty, will continue by checking out the cold start injector. Maybe this injector is actuated for too long (faulty thermo-time switch) or maybe I've got some leaking injectors. Was planning to buy / build and injector tester anyway, so now might be the time

greetings from Holland,

Bram



(testconnection.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments testconnection.jpg (50KB - 13 downloads)
#89872 - in reply to #84730
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/25/2007 2:22 AM
elevatorbernie
Expert




Date registered: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Vehicle(s): 1989 280GE
Posts: 1347
1000
RE: warm up compensator for M110 engine

bram_r - 9/24/2007 3:26 AM

Hi DesertStar, Bernie,

thanks for the replies, always interesting to discover 'the little differences' and trying to argue if a book is really right or not.

I'm pretty sure that the top connection of the WUR should lead to a (high) vacuum connection in the inlet manifold. As can be seen in one of my green coloured EPC prints, my WUR top connection (now) leads to the bottom of the inlet manifold.
Here you'd have the same vacuum signal as is going to the brake assist (vacuum connection on the inner fender side of the inlet manifold).
In idle or cruising/downhill situations there would be a high vacuum since the throttle valve is almost closed. Then, with also vacuum in the top chamber of the WUR (and atmospheric pressure in lower chamber), the regulating/signal pressure will increase and the mixture will lean out (as it should). In the official MB G-manual there is even a chart how much your regulating/signal pressure should be at what vacuum. I can post it here so you can verify, if you want to.

So Bernie's connection 'X' should be a vacuum connection. My question however is where does it get its vacuum signal from, in front of, or after the throttle valve. If connected in front of the throttle valve, you'd be having your air inlet pressure (only your pressure drop over your air filter and maybe your K-Jetronic air meter disc), which will only be a slight vacuum in high rpm situations. Maybe you can check again where your top 'x' connection is going to?

The side inlet is something to have some thoughts about.
Normally, you'd like a carb jet size to be smaller with altitude increase, so with the thinner air, you'd still be having the same mixture as on sea level. So, as also with our MB WUR, we would like to see a leaner mixture with altitude increase. The funny thing is if you look at fig. 30; if the lower chamber (connected to atmospheric pressure) is having a lower atmospheric pressure, the spring force of inner spring will be reduced and so reduce the signal/regulating pressure and thus richening the mixture.
This can't be the way Robert Bosch designed this thing and I'm pretty sure he's a bit ahead of my knowledge level as it comes to fuel injection.

When connecting this side inlet somewhere to your air inlet somewhere (where a little vacuum is created in wide open throttle situations) you'd be having your WOT enrichment following the same route as stated above (low signal pressure => rich mixture). But now we do get the enrichment, which is what we want at wide open throttle.

However, this whole WUR thing is a constant balance between inlet manifold pressure on the top and some pressure in the bottom. In a wide open throttle situation, your inlet manifold vacuum will also be pretty low and I'm also not exactly sure how much inlet manifold pressure/vacuum will be different in high altitude situations, so my thoughts above leaving the top chamber vacuum constant and only the bottom chamber pressure altering in not completely right I guess. Also, how much vacuum is present at what part of the air inlet is also something I'm not a full 100% on.

Bram
My X port is the vacuum line and the side is the vent. Here's the final word on WUR's from Bosch himself; as quoted right from my Bosch manual ( I trust this book more than the other with the confusing pictures ) Here you go...." this model of WUR uses 2 valve springs instead of 1. The outer of the 2 springs is supported on the housing as in the case with the normal-model WUR. The inner spring however is supported on a diaphragm which divids the regulator into an upper and a lower chamber. The mainfold pressure which is tapped via a hose connection from the intake manifold downstream of the throttle valve acts in the upper chamber. Depending upon the model, the lower chamber is subjected to atmospheric pressure either directly or by means of a 2nd hose leading to the air filter. Due to low manifold pressure in the idle and part-load ranges, which is also present in the upper chamber, the diaphram lifts to it's upper stop. The inner spring is then at maximum pretension. The pretension of both springs, as a result, determines the particular control pressure for these 2 ranges. When the throttle valve is opened further at full load, the pressure in the intake manifold INCREASES, the diaphragm leaves the upper stops and is pressed against the lower stops. The inner spring is relieved of tension and the control pressure reduced by the specified amount as a result. This results in mixture ENRICHMENT." I hope this helps because I hate typing...I'm gona by a scanner this week.

Edited by elevatorbernie 9/25/2007 2:47 AM
#89902 - in reply to #89778
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Author
Posted 9/25/2007 5:23 PM
charon_sin
Member


Date registered: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle(s): 1985 280GE SWB, 1992 300E, 2001 Isuzu VehiCross
Posts: 27
25
Re: warm up compensator for M110 engine

elevatorbernie - 9/22/2007 6:08 PM

charon_sin - 9/20/2007 5:46 PM

If you need a new regulator replace it with this http://www.unwiredtools.com/utcis.html
Have you tried it? I want one, where did you buy it? :cheers:


I called Steve at Unwired and I have talked to the shop that has installed them on a few 280's here in Phoenix and they have positive things to say about them. I think it is about the $500 or $600. I plan on getting one when my regulator fails.
#89976 - in reply to #89670
Top of the page Bottom of the page
« View previous thread :: View next thread »
Page 1 of 7 <12.053.054.055.05 ... >
Forum Jump :
All times are EST.  The time is now 11:37:34 AM.

Execution: 0.535 seconds, 105 cached, 18 executed.