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Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank
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Posted 1/8/2015 2:48 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

I just noticed this on-line, not many available, ORC has a very expensive one, this is a bit cheaper: has anybody seen one or bought one, I´m inquiring about build quality and filling time since it uses a electrical pump to fill up?



http://www.frontrunner.co.za/fuel-solutions/fuel-tanks/front-runner...

Edited by thebigblue 1/8/2015 2:50 AM
#226098
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Author
Posted 1/8/2015 11:01 AM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

This is similar in design to the one I built for my G, thought mine attaches to the body rather than the frame. 

Mine holds 10 gallons and is also filled/drained by a pump.  In practice, if I start with the extended range tamk empty and the main tank nearly so, both fill at about the same time.  This is using a "car diesel" nozzle, as opposed to the giant truck nozzles.

 





(TankPartsPicture.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments TankPartsPicture.jpg (353KB - 0 downloads)
#226102 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/8/2015 11:39 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Sweet And Thanks!


I guess the pump is a reversing type? Did you tab directly into the main tank? - FR uses a tube via the filling-neck, please see the install instructions:
http://www.frontrunner.co.za/media/pdf/FTMG001/F_FTMG001.pdf

Edited by thebigblue 1/8/2015 11:42 AM
#226103 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/8/2015 12:25 PM
Johnny Christensen
Veteran


Date registered: Sep 2010
Location: Denmark
Vehicle(s): GD290 W461
Posts: 202
100
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Hi Peter

A4614701201 is the original Mercedes aux 50L tank, offered to military vehicles. But there should be no problems in using them on civilian models that I know of. Surprisingly modest price of 775 euro. Of course that is the tank itself. The expenses for transfer pump, hoses and installation straps are additional to that.

WDB4613341X181137 is the VIN where you can find the tank. Just uncheck "Datacard SA filter" at the EPC search filters.

Though we do not have the überstrict german Tüv and inspection system watching our every move, it could be benefecial to point toward official Mercedes endorcement and strength testing, if the question should pop up during the biannual inspection. Proper partnumbers tends to carry you further than a big smile and counting on the inspectors forgiving mood.

(and welcome back from the dessert, It looked like a great trip)




Edited by Johnny Christensen 1/8/2015 12:45 PM
#226105 - in reply to #226098
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Author
Posted 1/8/2015 1:05 PM
Otiswesty
Administrator




Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
2000
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

http://www.original-genuine-spare-parts.com/a/mercedes-benz/A46147_...
502 Euro without tax
#226106 - in reply to #226105
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Posted 1/8/2015 1:11 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

I bought a bi-directional vane pump off of eBay for cheap.  Works great.  It is mounted with hose clamps onto the same feature that Front Runner uses.  Given noise transmitted by the direct-to-body mounting, you cannot miss the fact that the pump is running.  Also the sound of the pump running dry is easy to detect.  The pump isn't supposed to run dry for very long.  For short periods, diesel is a nice lubricant.

For the breather, I T-ed into the factory breather hose at the highest point up by the fuel filler.   That way I know it is full when fuel starts spitting out of the breather vent that is visible a few cm down the filler on the left side. 

Their filling system is actually pretty clever.  Much easier than what I did.  Instead, I pulled the tank sender and re-purposed the secondary fuel pipe that is normally feeding the park heater.  After using this for a while, I found that the narrow pipe filled too slowly.  I have since rebuilt the sender with a larger pipe made from malleable copper.  This moves a lot of fuel. 

I used clear braid reinforced hose, which was great for diagnosing initial problems.  Dirt and flying debris has rendered the hoses more translucent than clear, so the diagnosis benefit is gone now.

One final thing.  Since both ends of the fill system are dip tubes submerged into fuel tanks, there is a possibility of siphoning from the higher tank level to the lower.  To prevent this, there is a tiny (dental drill) vacuum breaker hole at the very top of the dip tube in the extended range tank.  This results in air bubbles being sucked in with the fuel when transferring back from the extended range tank.   This probably slows it down a bit, but hasn't really been noticeable.

The drawing below was my initial starting point.

The picture of the pump has the vent line in a misleading position.   I don't think it had been connected up yet.

 



Edited by AlanMcR 1/8/2015 1:22 PM




(FuelTankDiagram.jpg)



(TankPlumbingAndPumpSmall.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments FuelTankDiagram.jpg (14KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments TankPlumbingAndPumpSmall.jpg (51KB - 0 downloads)
#226107 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/8/2015 2:51 PM
Johnny Christensen
Veteran


Date registered: Sep 2010
Location: Denmark
Vehicle(s): GD290 W461
Posts: 202
100
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

otiswesty - 1/8/2015 7:05 PM

http://www.original-genuine-spare-parts.com/a/mercedes-benz/A46147_...
502 Euro without tax


Really good price. I'll have to check out that site for further rebuild plans.

Thanks !!

Edited by Johnny Christensen 1/8/2015 2:53 PM
#226108 - in reply to #226106
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Posted 1/8/2015 3:09 PM
Tommaso

Date registered: Jun 2013
Location: Rwanda
Vehicle(s): G320, w463, m104 I6
25
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Would it work with gasoline as well? On only with diesel?
#226109 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/8/2015 4:20 PM
AlanMcR
Expert




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: US, CA, Los Altos
Vehicle(s): G300DT E300DT 230SL
Posts: 3500
2000
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Tommaso - 1/8/2015 12:09 PM Would it work with gasoline as well? On only with diesel?

It should work with any fuel.  The design doesn't meddle with the venting system in any substantial way.  In theory, the various nanny systems won't know or care about it.  The impeller of the vane pump needs to be 100% compatible with whatever fuel you plan on using.  Gasoline is a strong solvent and a lousy lubricant, so that may be a challenge.

#226111 - in reply to #226109
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Posted 1/9/2015 12:26 AM
Otiswesty
Administrator




Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
2000
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

I don't get why the Frontrunner tank only works with the diesel G. Aren't the crossmembers and driveshafts aligned the same?
#226120 - in reply to #226106
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Posted 1/9/2015 2:43 AM
Roly
Elite Veteran




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle(s): 1999 G500
Posts: 661
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

The attached parts diagram indicates the components used on the Australian military G fuel tanks.
It uses 2 fuel pumps and transfer the fuel from the main tank to the second tank, then another pump in the second tank delivers to the engine. So 100% duty and standby.



Attachments
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Attachments OZ AUX TANK 461.333 Station Wagen.pdf (197KB - 52 downloads)
#226121 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 3:08 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Wow - thanks a lot, I appreciate all your input, great stuff, THANKS
#226122 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 3:14 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

otiswesty - 1/9/2015 6:26 AM

I don't get why the Frontrunner tank only works with the diesel G. Aren't the crossmembers and driveshafts aligned the same?


My guess is that it has something to do with safety... and pumps maybe
#226123 - in reply to #226120
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Posted 1/9/2015 3:24 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Johnny Christensen - 1/8/2015 6:25 PM

Hi Peter

A4614701201 is the original Mercedes aux 50L tank, offered to military vehicles. But there should be no problems in using them on civilian models that I know of. Surprisingly modest price of 775 euro. Of course that is the tank itself. The expenses for transfer pump, hoses and installation straps are additional to that.

WDB4613341X181137 is the VIN where you can find the tank. Just uncheck "Datacard SA filter" at the EPC search filters.

Though we do not have the überstrict german Tüv and inspection system watching our every move, it could be benefecial to point toward official Mercedes endorcement and strength testing, if the question should pop up during the biannual inspection. Proper partnumbers tends to carry you further than a big smile and counting on the inspectors forgiving mood.

(and welcome back from the dessert, It looked like a great trip)




Thanks Johnny - maybe someday you could come with me, btw I´m returning again for 6 weeks in late February

And thank a million for the input, would the frame dimensions be the same on a 463 as on a 461?




Edited by thebigblue 1/9/2015 4:43 AM
#226124 - in reply to #226105
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Posted 1/9/2015 4:41 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Mercedes in Herlev (close to Copenhagen) says DKK 6,650.00 incl. VAT, two brackets to mount DKK 344.00 each, placed a order and taking delivery on Tuesday. Parts-guy did say it was for the Australian market strictly.

The pump (#100) is DKK 2.800 excl. VAT - not sure I need it, I will have a look at the tank before I order more parts. I will try a set-up with a reversing pump as in the FR tank.




Edited by thebigblue 1/9/2015 4:45 AM
#226125 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 7:45 AM
David J. Pearson
Regular




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cumbria, UK
Vehicle(s): 230 GES,G500 Classic,300TE 24, 200 CLK Cab. 73 TR6
Posts: 88
50
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

A few pics of my Auxiliary tank installation. It was a Woick of Stuttgart tank. Removed it at the suggestion of my mechanic, he thought it wasn't safe as it hung down below the chassis rails.



(tank 1 p3.jpg)



(tank 2 p3.jpg)



(tank 3 p3.jpg)



(tank4 p3.jpg)



(tank 5 p3.jpg)



(tank 6 p3.jpg)



(tank 7 p3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments tank 1 p3.jpg (665KB - 2 downloads)
Attachments tank 2 p3.jpg (634KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments tank 3 p3.jpg (622KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments tank4 p3.jpg (609KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments tank 5 p3.jpg (555KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments tank 6 p3.jpg (579KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments tank 7 p3.jpg (615KB - 0 downloads)
#226126 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 7:59 AM
thebigblue

Date registered: Jan 2012
Location:
Vehicle(s):
500
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

- That must be a 95l., the 70l. version would stay above the frame - expensive piece, probably the most expensive out there ...

I´m pulsed why FR did not make the tank go further back by inverting the circular bracket to accommodate this and give a few additional liters of fuel - I can see yours do!




Edited by thebigblue 1/9/2015 8:05 AM
#226127 - in reply to #226098
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Posted 1/9/2015 8:06 AM
David J. Pearson
Regular




Date registered: Apr 2006
Location: Cumbria, UK
Vehicle(s): 230 GES,G500 Classic,300TE 24, 200 CLK Cab. 73 TR6
Posts: 88
50
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Yeah I think it was 90+ litres. Took forever to fill too. Only started to fill when the main tank was full up to the filler neck tube where the inlet to the auxiliary tank was plumbed in. Would probably have kept in in if it had been 70 litres
#226128 - in reply to #226127
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Posted 1/9/2015 9:48 AM
Johnny Christensen
Veteran


Date registered: Sep 2010
Location: Denmark
Vehicle(s): GD290 W461
Posts: 202
100
RE: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

thebigblue - 1/9/2015 9:24 AM


Thanks Johnny - maybe someday you could come with me, btw I´m returning again for 6 weeks in late February

And thank a million for the input, would the frame dimensions be the same on a 463 as on a 461?





From 2002 and onwards, starting with the GD270 cdi models. The frame and driveline in 463 and 461 has been the same, when we are talking "normal" configurations of swb and lwb.
The special versions like 3428mm are an extremly small 461 production, most end up by military customers. I seem to remember that there is also a 3100mm version out there.

The VIN number of the 280 cdi that has the aux tank, is a 2850, so frame, driveline and exhaust routing should be the same as yours G400.
Some fabrication to adapt the fuel lines to your vehicle will be required, but it looks like an elegant and sturdy solution can be worked out, when looking at your Frontrunner pdf.
I would do it with a single reversible pump. Mount it on a bracket to the body, so you will hear when it's running. Bring a spare pump along on extended trips and you should be fine.

A 50L tank is in my future too, but for now my winter project is to install a 6 speed manual box. It allready sitting on a pallet, next to the car :-)
#226129 - in reply to #226124
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Posted 1/9/2015 11:37 AM
Otiswesty
Administrator




Date registered: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle(s): 463.241, 461.213
Posts: 3004
2000
Re: Front Runner Auxiliary fuel tank

Looking at the Front Runner installation instructions, it looks like the fill port is off of the filler neck and would require the main tank to be full and actively topped up in order to keep fuel flowing to the aux tank when the pump is in fill mode. I would rather tap into the fuel line to my Webasto heater before the aux heater fuel pump for the fuel supply line. I think it would be possible to reverse flow through this tap back into the main tank as well.

I would really like to see the part numbers for the Oz tank, pump, switch, etc. Would need an appropriate VIN though.

Edited by otiswesty 1/9/2015 11:51 AM
#226131 - in reply to #226120
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